www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Latin vs. Byzantine Theology

But the Church sees the council of Lyons as ecumenical. So is it or isn't it? If the Church expects me to accept that it is and it isn't then I fear that I might lose my faith. As for the requirenment of the prescense of the "whole church" for a council to be ecumenical, well the non-chalcedonian or oriental Orthdox Churches make the same arguement about the council of Chalcedon. So the real test of whether a council is ecumenical or not is not who is there, but rather, whether or not the Church sees it as ecumenical.

I am truely sorry if I have offended you. I do respect the east and I hope that you do not think that I am saying that there are no bad western Catholics. I don't want to draw any lines in the sand between you and us. Now let me explain my perspective a bit better. In the West, heretics tend to admitt freely that they are in disagreement with the teachings of the Church. Forgive me if I am wrong, that is simply what I have observed. However, in the East it APPEARS that rejection of Catholic dogma is a bit institutionalized, so much so that Eastern Catholics SEEM to believe that they are allowed by the Church to disagree with the Church.I was wondering if the Eastern Churches were required to believe all that the west believes. Again, if I am misunderstanding something, please forgive me. I am a simple Catholic and do not claim to have the fullness of knowledge of the faith in my own person. Rather, I simply have a faith that seeks understanding.

Dear LatinCat,

I am Orthodox and not in communion with the Pope, but the way I perceive it, the Pope accepts differences in 'approaches' to theosis. So if the Byzantine Catholics decide that their approaches through certain practices, will bring them a greater fufillment, it does not mean that they are in disagreement with the Latin Church on doctrine....only on approaches.

Now you figure out what I just said.

Zenovia

Dear LatinCat you said:

I say:

It all depends on the boundaries you place on the 'Church'. If those boundaries include only the RCC, then it is an Ecumenical Council. If those boundaries extend further than the RCC, then it is not an Ecumenical Council.

As for losing your faith, it is possible since fundamentalism in any denomination depicts a spiritual immaturity. :rolleyes: But look, hold on there! Conclusions will be reached when the time is ripe.

Zenovia

The authority of the later "general" councils of the Western Church has been discussed before:

Click the links below to read those discussions:

The Ecumenical Councils: are there 21 or only 7?

Ecumenical Councils Authority

Please stop it with the Latin vs. Eastern topics. We are not talking about two seperate things. We are talking about the same theology expressed in a different use of words.

Let us examine the purgatory for example...
The Catholics say that after death, souls that sinned but repented will spend some time on purgatorial fire. The Orthodox say that the should will only face a period of wait before entering heaven. What if, the purgatorial fire is a fire inside the soul that saddens it because it can't enter heaven right away but will have to wait.

My point is, stop comparing Latin vs Orthodox and start finding common points. Only by this we shall restore unity.

It would be wonderful if this was as simple as the situation was. But our Eastern Orthodox bretheren will assure you that Purgatory is heresy.

Dear LC,

I have been watching you and you've done far too much accusing and far too little teaching wherever you go here.

You want admissions of guilt where you should be seeking to offer the tools that lead to insight, which begins and ends, by the way, in prayer.

Your evangelical tool-kit to date here comprises far too few tools and crudely wrought, not suited to a sacred purpose.

Not all Orthodox Catholics take the positions that you seem to think that they do. I know what you are reacting to but that is not the entire story. The differences that you note are too facile and not universal, and not based upon thoughtfully prepared catechesis or mystagogy. To hammer away at them accomplishes nothing.

No ordinary man has the time to follow you around cleaning up the mess that you are making. Try something else more fruitful. Take a teaching that concerns you, and teach it, and be darn sure you teach it well.

Eli

Actually I am still working on this one! :p

Eli

I guess you misunderstand. I am not here to evangelize. I am here to get some answers. I always thought that the only two real options were the Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Churches. I came to a conclusion that the Eastenr Orthodox Churches were not the true Church very Early on. In fact, I really think that the Catholic Church looks ALOT more like the early Church. However, now there is a new propblem. It appears that now the Eastern Catholic Churches and the Western Church teach contradictory dogmas. That cannot be true of Christ's Church. Thus, it no longer appears that the Catholic Church is the true Churh either. I am trying to get some straight answers to help sort out this problem.

I guess you misunderstand. I am not here to evangelize. I am here to get some answers. I always thought that the only two real options were the Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Churches. I came to a conclusion that the Eastern Orthodox Churches were not the true Church very Early on. In fact, I really think that the Catholic Church looks ALOT more like the early Church. However, now there is a new problem. It appears that now the Eastern Catholic Churches and the Western Church teach contradictory dogmas. That cannot be true of Christ's Church. Thus, it no longer appears that the Catholic Church is the true Church either. I am trying to get some straight answers to help sort out this problem.

That's interesting. Was the Orthodox Church "ossified" (as you said) at too late a date to look like the early church?

Andrew

I find that Latin Kat is very offensive...saying that the Orthodox isn't true Church.

All the Popes in history do assert that the Orthodox is indeed the true Church which Christ founded upon.

Do us and yourself a favor...stay a Latin Catholic, don't switch over to Byzantine. Because there's no point of doing that if your belief system is overly saturated with Latin way of thinking. You'll be doing yourself disservice to your soul if it can't be fulfilling or compatible with who you are.

There's no room for Latin way of thinking in the Byzantine Churches. Sorry.

I recognize all first 7 Councils as truly Ecumenical. Any councils after that are NOT ecumentical!

I strongly appreciate the fact that the Orthodox have their own councils but don't view that as Ecumenical. Why do I appreciate that? It's because the Orthodox have the heart to say that it's not Ecumenical until the Church of Rome is inside of the Council along with all of the Orthodox or vice versa. All of Pentarchy should be present in order for it to be truly called "Ecumencial." That shows humility and williness of the Orthodox to wait for a full reunited Church to make it so. The RCC have such arrogance to call particular councils to be Ecumenical. And I am CATHOLIC. THANK YOU!!!!!

Thank you,

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

As a Roman Catholic I find on the contrary that there is plenty of room for Eastern thinking in the Latin Church. I mean that I think Latin Christianity needs to re-learn that Christianity is an Eastern religion. Maybe even more Eastern than Byzantium. In my own development (now aged sixty) I have arrived at views on certain topics, such as purgation after death, which I now discover fit in more easily to the Eastern scheme of things than the rather legalistic Roman approach. That does not mean that my own vocation is to change rites, by the way.

Keep looking East.

Looks to me like someone maybe looking for Church that is in step with themselves. Which may account for a certain narrowness of vision. With so many closed avenues it is made very hard to seek the will of God.