www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Greek Catholic Communion for Orthodox Christians

Buchik:

"Transgression" is something one does with an attitude of wanting to run afoul of the rules.

A simple misunderstanding with the best of intentions is, I think, where you were/are at. Be at peace with what has been done and go back with a light heart.

In Christ,

BOB

Buchik,
Canon 844 paragraph 3 states Catholic ministers administer the sacraments of penance, Eucharist and anointing of the sick licitly to members of Eastern Churches which do not have full communion with the Catholic Church if they seek such on their own accord and are properly disposed. This is also valid for members of other Churches which in the judegement of the Apostolic See are in the same condition in regards to the sacraments as these Eastern Churchers.

There is no need for you to be in danger of death, or not having an Orthodox Church nearby, this section of the canon simply recognizes that you may on any occasion receive these three sacraments if you request them.
It clarifies that an Orthodox person needs to act with local Orthodox leaders.
But since it is your intent to enter into communion with the UGCC I wouldnt say that that applies to you per se.
Why enter into communion with the Catholic Church as someone here asked?
Well from a Catholic perspective simply put "it is the will of Christ." Is not this important.

Stephanos I

Buchik,

That could be dangerous off the shores of Oz; reefs, great whites, and all that .

Seriously, welcome to the forum. In our enthusiasm to answer questions posed to us by newcomers, we sometimes forget our manners and fail to say 'hello'.

From the Code of Canon Law of the Eastern Churches (CCEO):

The Code of the Latin (or Roman) Church (CCO) provides similarly:

As you see, in both instances, the sole requirements are that the Orthodox Christian ask of their own free will to receive such and that they are properly disposed to receive the Mystery. It is not necessary that there be extraordinary circumstances involved.

At the same time, the Catholic Churches do not presume to usurp/interfere in the relationship between Orthodox brethren and their Churches, which ordinarily forbid reception of Mysteries from Catholic clergy. Typically, the caution is voiced (it appears in the backnotes of the missalettes used in many US Latin parishes) that Orthodox Christians consider the discipline or directives of their own Church in deciding whether or not to receive the Mysteries in a Catholic church. In these circumstances, where you have a decided commitment to enter communion with the UGCC, the issue is obviously moot or soon will be. The decision whether to receive the Mysteries in the UGCC prior to your formal entry into communion is yours to make.

From the Code of Canon Law - Eastern:

As you can see from Section 5, technically, (other than in danger of death), the baby's baptism by an Eastern Catholic priest should be limited to instances where no minister of the parents' faith is available (this particular canon doesn't distinguish between the Orthodox and those of other Christian denominations). However, as you and your wife are anticipating entering communion with the UGCC, it makes eminent sense that your son be baptized in the UGCC.

I suspect that set of mixed circumstances you describe (i.e., you seeking his baptism possibly before the two of you enter communion) is at the heart of another issue that you raised.

As you see, except in the situation that I previously cited (of a non-Catholic Christian infant baptized by a Catholic priest because of the physical inability to have the baptism performed by a minister of the infant's own Church), the licity of the baptism depends in part on the intent to raise the infant as a Catholic. I think that the priest, in his reference to an affirmation of faith on your part, may be suggesting that you and your wife should commit to your change of communion prior to or simultaneous with your son's baptism.

As to the Godparents, I think he is merely referring to the commitment by the Catholic Godparent to assist in/see to the Catholic upbringing/education of your son. It would make no sense to ask that the non-Catholic (? Orthodox) Godparent affirm his/her belief in a faith (Catholic) to which he/she does not subscribe.

Altenatively, his reference may be to the statements/promises made on the infant's behalf by the parents and Godparents (e.g., renounciation of Satan).

Finally, the right to have an Orthodox Christian as a Godparent is provided for in the Eastern Code. The only stipulation is that the other Godparent be Catholic.

Hope this helps.

Congratulations to you and your wife on the birth of your son . May God grant him many years, in good health and love of God and his fellow man.

Welcome to both of you in your decision to enter communion with the UGCC and, hopefully, you'll continue to post here. We can always use another Ukrainian (just ask Hritzko ).

Many years,

Neil

Buchik,

If you are planning on attending a UGCC church because there are no Ukrainian Orthodox Churches in your area, please do so, BUT do not convert. Simply tell your priest that due to geographical limitations you can't attend your UOC and have opted for the UGCC.

We alternate between the Orthodox and Greek-Catholic Churches here in Boston all the time, and both priests think it's great.

Be as Orthodox as you like in the UGCC churches - and let everyone know it. Also, encourage some of the UGCC members to attend the UOC churches for special services if possible.

You are not alone.......

For example, there are an estimated 140,000 to 200,000 Ukrainians who have recently emigrated to the Czeck Republic. About 40,000 are legal immigrants, the rest are not. The new immigrants are a combination of Ukrainian Greek-Catholics and Ukrainian Orthodox Church (KP & MP) members. Those from the the East are far less churched but still consider themselves Orthodox Kyivan Christians and have come to understand that Greek-Catholicism is their faith also.

Many of them now attend the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (Czech Greek Catholic Exarchate). This massive Ukrainian influx of new immigrants has greatly helped the dying Greek Catholic Exarchate which had between 6,000 and 8,000 elderly members.

The thousands of new Ukrainian immigrants do not care one iota that the church is 'Greek-Catholic' because to them that is just a variant of their Ukrainian Orthodox Church. Someone used the expression 'Baptismal by necessity' to describe the Ukrainian Orthodox members attending the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Prague (and the rest of the Republic) because they doubt if any of them have gone through any formal conversion, or if they ever will. The bishop is a Hungarian who doesn't speak their language and that may be the biggest barrier at this point and any further formal conversion. To them it is important that the Church is Ukrainian Orthodox under a homeland Kyivan Patriarchate and in communion with Rome and Constantinople.

So the next time you attend the UGCC church in Australia, remember - don't convert, respect each other, and that you are not alone - we are one Kyivan church.

Hritzko