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Mar 25th, 2025
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Thank you Abouna Anthony for such a wonderful testimony of God's love. Jesus truly reached out in charity to a child who must have been tormented in so many ways, and he used your hands and mouth to let his love be known.
A friend, a religious brother most of his life, became a late vocation as far as priesthood, but in the mean time was known to minister to HIV patients. He said it was so important to just reach out and literaly touch them, because it was the only way they would understand the healing touch of Jesus. That is what you did.
You are a witness to us all and may we learn as we sit at your feet and listen.
Pani Rose
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God bless you Father Anthony!
In Christ,
Alice
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Bless, Father.
Dear Father Anthony, Thank you for your beautiful story. You truly were "in persona Christi".
Your story reminds of a Homily given by the Deacon in my parish, last Pascha. He talked about a Saint Thomas (from Spain). I can't remember his last name.
In the homily, Deacon told us about how St. Thomas saw Christ in everyone, including the weak and misfortunate. One instance was where a man was riddled with disease, dying of hunger and the locals would not go near him. It was St. Thomas who said.. "This man is Christ.... why do you run and not help this man?"
St Thomas cared for the dying man and administered the Holy Eucharist to him.
At the end of the Homily, Deacon asked us all, What would we do to help Christ? Would we be the ones to help him carry the cross or would we all run and hide from him.
Though we may not see Him physically, He his present in each and every one of us.
May God continue to bless you.
Kissing your right hand.
Brad
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Bless, Father Anthony,
Here prayers for you and the soul of Father Nektarios.
In the Risen Lord Jesus Christ, Marian
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Dear Friends:
I think we have joined two issues which, although referring to the same human condition, might not be correlated.
This thread is about priestly formation and the feasibility, at least in the U.S., to bar homosexuals from the seminaries. Personally, I favor the tact Rome and the USCCB are preparing to follow.
Ministering to homosexuals, whether they be lay, seminarian, monastic, or priest, is a long settled issue: they are part of the Church.
DocBrian has written many articles on homosexuals and homosexuality in the Church and in the secular world that I am eager to hear him re-state his views.
Amado
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Originally posted by Stephanos I:
What about those inclined to alcoholism or women or any of the other vices, lets get rid of them too.
Stephanos I Stephanos, When I was in the seminary, those men who were caught with women in their rooms were given three days to pack their belongings and leave the seminary. On the other hand, I got tired of the conferences where we had to learn to accept our homosexual seminarian. One homosexual theologian (grad student) got ordained a deacon and most of the students boycotted the liturgy. The next day we were rounded up and chastised for not supporting our brother. Where was the "support" for the seminarian who preferred chasing a skirt rather than another man? I don't condone either situation, but the practice in the past demonstrated a preference. I even heard the argument that if the homosexual cleric kept his lifestyle to himself the bishop would look the other way. They called it "celibacy" which meant "not having sex with the OPPOSITE sex." The reason for marriage, as one late archbishop told me, was to "feel up a woman." Such a mixed up boyish understanding of marriage, especially a sacramental one. Those who played around doing shameful things with other men were just considered "going through a phase" or "just being boys." What a perverted understanding of boyhood. But the past culture that was prevelant in our churches accepted anyone who could take on the yoke of celibacy even if that person preferred a lifestyle that was at odds with Christian marriage and/or morality. Those opting for marriage or a married clergy were considered "one of them" (i.e, Orthodox). Yes, the adulterer has a problem as much as a practicing homosexual. But the interesting thing to note is where preference and protection are given. Priests in the past protested about a homosexual "network". Fr. Andrew Greeley calls it the Lavender Mafia. It may look like everyone is ganging up on homosexuals, but such "boys" had the run for so long. Genital contact between men was considered a valid form of expression of love. Joe
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Dear Joe, And when I was in Catholic high school, which used to be called a "minor seminary" at one point, when I said I wanted to be a priest and word got around, I was actually told to participate in a series of meetings with a "counselor." The counselor said he had been in a seminary and wanted to know why I wanted to be in one. He then told me that unless I had "homosexual tendencies," I should not even be thinking about entering a seminary. "But," he said, "If you really have the call, then by all means . . ." I was later put on to a female counselor who spent time assessing my attractiveness to the opposite sex and why I didn't date etc. When, during questioning, I told the counselors that I did, in fact, tell my parents where I was going when I left the house, they said, "Ah, you really DO have a problem!" They even later called my parents to try and "counsel" them about overly controlling me. The thing got really sickening for me when my poor parents approached me to ask me, "Alex, do we dominate you? Do we stifle your freedom?" I knew they were getting those words from the counselors! For the remainder of my days in that Catholic high school, I was called a "fag" by the others since I wanted to be a priest. The only way I could get free of that nonsense was by going to a school dance where everyone could see I was "decent and normal." By the way, I had a much better time with the slightly overweight brunette with lots of personality than my "friends" did with the blondes they were chasing. Just a word to the wise to our younger posters who aren't over the hill like Joe and I are . . .  The moral of my story is that . . . blondes aren't such a big deal . . . Alex
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I think we have joined two issues which, although referring to the same human condition, might not be correlated.
This thread is about priestly formation and the feasibility, at least in the U.S., to bar homosexuals from the seminaries. Personally, I favor the tact Rome and the USCCB are preparing to follow.
Ministering to homosexuals, whether they be lay, seminarian, monastic, or priest, is a long settled issue: they are part of the Church.
[/QB] Which two issues might not be correlated?
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Dear DocBrian:
The 2 issues are:
(1) Barring homosexuals from priestly formation;
and
(2) Ministering to homosexuals.
They should not, and could not, be correlated. I think these are different issues and do not display any clear causal relationship.
Amado
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This reminds me of a most excellent book that all Catholics should read: Good Bye Good Men [ amazon.com] On a side note I recently read (don't have the source with me) that over 90% of all sexual crimes in conjunction with the sex scandal where homosexual acts. The source looked world wide at each case and plotted the results. The results contained a right-skewed distribution [ cvgs.k12.va.us] to adolescent teens.
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So let me ask this: does this lastest tome out of Rome mean to imply that if someone is gay, they could NEVER commit to the celibate life and be faithful and good RC priests and should not be allowed into the seminaries? AND that gay priests, bishops, etc. are entirely to blame for the past and recent sexual scandals in the Church, and eliminating this set from the priestly formation pool will solve the problem?
Also, DocBrian, I'm still waiting to hear (based on your above message) what education and training that seminary spiritual directors have that will enable them to detect these men before they actually can get ordained.
John K
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Originally posted by Amadeus:
Dear DocBrian:
The 2 issues are:
(1) Barring homosexuals from priestly formation;
and
(2) Ministering to homosexuals.
They should not, and could not, be correlated. I think these are different issues and do not display any clear causal relationship.
Amado I agree completely, Amado. Ministering to those afflicted with SSAD takes an incredible degree of personal holiness and charity and patience, without compromising basic orthodox moral principles. The group that best exemplifies this approach is The Courage Apostolate. [ couragerc.net] They do awesome, courageous work. From their website: Persons with homosexual desires have always been with us; however, up to recent times, there has been little, if any, outreach from the Church in the way of support groups or information. Most were left to work out their path on their own. As a result, they found themselves listening to and accepting the secular society's perspective and opting to act on their same-sex desires.
His Eminence Terence Cardinal Cooke of New York, was aware of, and troubled by this situation. He knew that the individual dealing with same-sex attractions truly needed to experience the freedom of living chastely and in that freedom find the desire and growth steps necessary to live fully Christian lives in communion with God and others. He was concerned that many would not find this path and would be constantly trying to get their needs met in ways that ultimately do not satisfy the desires of the heart.
In response to this concern, he decided to form a spiritual support system which would assist men and women with same-sex attractions in living chaste lives in fellowship, truth and love.
Knowing of Fr. John Harvey's extensive ministry experience in this field, he invited him to come to his archdiocese.
With the help of the Rev. Benedict Groeschel, C.F.R., and others, Fr. Harvey began the Courage Apostolate with its first meeting meeting in September, 1980 at the Shrine of Mother Seton in South Ferry.
With the endorsement of the Holy See, Courage, now with more than 95 Chapters world wide, over 500 persons participating in its ListServs and hundreds of persons per day receiving assistance from the main office and website, has become a mainstream Catholic Apostolate helping thousands of men and women find peace through fellowship, prayer and the Sacraments.
The Courage main office operates through the prayerful and financial support of the Archdiocese of New York as well as contributions and volunteer work from Courage members and other individuals and organizations committed to advancing its efforts.
Individual chapters throughout the world are self-supporting and exist with the permission of their diocesan Bishop.
In helping individuals gain a greater understanding and appreciation for the Church's teachings, Courage extends the Church's invitation to experience the freedom of chaste living. In chaste living, one finds greater freedom, peace and grace to grow in Christian maturity. Men afflicted with SSAD can be fully engaged members of the Catholic Church, just like the rest of us sinners. The Vatican is simply saying that, due to the high rate of abuse of adolescent males by active homosexual priests, these men can no longer, without exception, be admitted to ordination. This does not in any way conflict with or undermine the compassionate and charitable ministering to those afflicted with SSAD already going on in the Church.
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Dear Dr. BJK: Thanks for confirming what I understood from your posts. We are one! Amado
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Also, DocBrian, I'm still waiting to hear (based on your above message) what education and training that seminary spiritual directors have that will enable them to detect these men before they actually can get ordained.[/QB] Personal holiness and basic common sense is all it really takes, along with a knowledge of the spiritual life and basic human nature. If you want to throw in various psychology or psychiatry degrees for good measure, that's OK too, but not always necessary; its the psychology and psychiatry types that let the offending priests return to new parishes to abuse more kids.
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John K,
I don't think it is as simple as that. Homosexual people suffer from SADD. SADD is just that a disease. Just like Alcoholism SADD is with that person for the rest of their life.
People with disorders should not be allowed in the priesthood. It just happens that right now there are a large number of men and women in the Catholic Church which suffer from SADD.
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