www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Fed Up

Dear Teen Logo,

Whenever you feel depressed about the NO contemporary services, just remember one thing:

"Someone's sighin' Lord, Kum-ba-ya. . .!"

Alex

Hi,

I understand that, but you said that not kneeling at the consecration was like slapping The Lord on the face.

That is a hard thing to say, and it is absolutely incorrect in the Byzantine liturgical tradition.

You might feel that way because of your own spiritual background, but I think it is not proper to extrapolate that to a universal rule.

I agree with you, the proper body posture for the Eucharistic Prayer in the Latin rite is kneeling, regardless of the particular date the Eucharist is being celebrated.

But I would not go as far as implying that not doing that is a slap to the face to Our Lord.

Well, the Book of Blessings offers the new before the old:

To me, that indicates a preference of the new over the old and I'd interpret that as a way to express that the old is not only old but somehow obsoltete.

If all this makes that interpretation my own and nobody else's, well, then that is the case.

Shalom,
Memo

On this mornings homily by Fr. Francis on EWTN, he discussed the need to avoid becoming like the Pharisee's when attending church etc, trying to dot all the i's...we are there to praise and worship, not to observe and judge...I've been guilty of this many times...Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.

james

Easier said than done!

Too often there are distractions in the Latin Mass that border on irreverence.

I want to share something: Last Good Friday I was surprised to see one of my "staunch Irish Roman Catholic" friends at our Ukrainian Catholic parish. At the conclusion of the Procession and Burial I asked: "Tom,WHAT are you doing here?" His reply: "They took my church from me." Poor man, he's been having such a difficult time with all the changes in the Latin Rite. I keep telling him that he'd make an outstanding Eastern Catholic and we'd even teach him some Ukrainian. He's seriously thinking about it.
If he does make the change, will I be accused of ecclesiastical kidnapping?

Pavloosh,

I've been fence dwelling for the last three years or so, however, my thought process is akin to leaving/abandoning a wounded comrade behind in the battle field...it does tug at the soul, either way you look at it.

james

Well Teen now you have had the benefit of the wisdom of the forum you will no doubt need some time to read over the postings, refect, pray and make make some decisions.

Have a good and holy Lent!

ICXC
NIKA

Dear Teen,

Here's another link. I'm not sure if this is "food for thought" or "fuel for the fire", but it's definitely pertinent to what has already been discussed here.

www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=18897 [catholic.org]

Without trying to undermine any of the good advice you've already been given I do believe it is your right and even your duty to address your concerns, in Cardinal Arinze's words, "firmly but gently" to the priest involved if you are troubled.

Change must begin somewhere, and a young, faithful voice such as yours may be most effective.

Wishing you a blessed and fruitful Lent,

Bill

they're still using guitars??? I thought that was so 60's. Why I thought the Roman Catholic Church's whole existence was to be "relevant"? Guitar Masses aren't relevant. (I remember "Hootenany Massess).

If you attend Mass at St. Peter's in the Vatican you will find no kneelers there either. Most churches I attended or visited in Italy had no kneelers; just moveable chairs.

But I agree you should have a reverent liturgy. But I don't agree that your complaints make you judging someone. But, you aren't really versed in the various rubics of the Mass either. (As a poster stated, the Creed is only receited on Sunday's and solemnities). But I would look for another church to attend. I don't know where you live, but there is a Ruthenian parish in Macon. God bless.

There's an OCA parish in Macon.

The Byzantine Catholic parish is in Roswell (North Atlanta).

I really do not think the questions of changing rites or churches is what was being sought by Logos Teen. He is trying to sort out some major problems in how the community that is closest him interprets and institutes the sacraments.

I believe that most have chanelled him, i.e. Theophan, in a way that should be as follows, look, pray, listen, learn and then approach. If he does this, there will be defintely spiritual growth and witness on his part. If he acts without any or some of the above steps, I am sure that very little that will come of his plight.

One thing that I have not seen noted, that as we have entered into the Fast (Lent) one should be aware of the many different temptations that come our way, and I do not mean just food. Let all beware of this as we engage in the spiritual battle that will lead us to a resurrected life in Christ.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Ok, here's some good news.

I had to attend Mass at the Catholic Center again today (this afternoon), because I had a mother-son luncheon earlier.

Anyway, before Mass the priest (a different one) did mention that, while some people like it, hand-holding during the Our Father "is not part of Catholic tradition" and that it shouldn't be forced on people. His explanation could've been better (something about maybe people are afraid of germs), but I very much appreciated it.

Additionally, looking at the Holy Week schedule for the Center, there is a Tenebrae Service on Wednesday of Holy Week at sunset. I was actually stunned senseless by that.

I've read the traditional (pre-Pauline reform) version of the Tenebrae Service and it is absolutely beautiful and mysterious. As this will be a Pauline Tenebrae, I'm interested to see how it compares. The bulletin did say that a loud noise is made at one point, symbolizing the Death of Christ. Anyone have an idea what that is?

Logos Teen

Kneeling at the Eucharistic Prayer to my knowledge is not a tradition of the Latin Church.
It is one that was imposed in America and that was due I beleive to the heavy Irish influence of early Catholicism in this Country.

In Rome and some other European Countries it is coustomary to stand until the actual consecration at which time one kneels.
Stephanos I

Stephanos,

In the New or Traditional Mass?

Mentioning the "Irish influence" that made this occur seems to imply you mean the TLM, but that doesn't make sense to me since, in the TLM, the faithful are called to kneel for the entire Canon of the Mass.

And if you're talking about the New Mass, I don't think the Irish influence would be that substantial in 1970!

Logos Teen

Dear Alex,
For a truly nostalgic, olde-tyme experience, remember to sing the verse:

"Someone's faxing, Lord, Kum-ba-ya. . .!"

Incognitus

LT

Do you have the Daily Roman Missal, published by Chicago Archdiocese from memory. It has the Latin and English text of the cuerrent Mass side by side, and a bunch of other valuable resources, inc. readings for each day and votive masss etc.

I highly recommend it as a liturgical resource.

NW