www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Divine Liturgy vs Mass

I have a question.

I know that in the Byzantine Church we all refer to the services as "Divine Liturgy".
The syriacs (maronites, syriac orthodox, syriac catholics) call it the Qurbona, or Quddas, the Chaldeans the Anaphora of St Addai and Mari... but they also call it Divine Liturgy (if i am not mistaken), and in the Latin Church, the services are generally called "Mass".

Some authors explain this diversity of definitions because the particular christian traditions tended to enphasize certain aspects of the liturgy.

The term Divine Liturgy is usually followed by the name of the Saint who wrote the Liturgy, or who influenced its tradition (Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom, St Basil, St James in the Orthodox Church).

If most of the Churches accept the term Divine Liturgy, is it correct to call the Tridentine Mass of the Latin Tradition, "Divine Liturgy of St Gregory" (the Antiochian Western Rite Vicariate call it this way).

I know that the Mass of Holly Friday of the Latins is called "Liturgy of the Presantified", but I don't know if they also put the word "Divine" before.

But has the Latin Church ever used the term "Divine Liturgy"? Is the Tridentine Mass called this way?

Dear Remie

You have got me all confused - but I know that is easy because of the grey hairs on my head

However you made me go and get my Missal out 'cos I needed to check exactly what was there . I quote from the 20+ pages just the one wee relevant bit

Good Friday - celebration of the Lord's Passion..........consists of three parts : liturgy of the word, veneration of the cross, and holy communion.

Please where did you find the term "Liturgy of the Presanctified"

The phrase "Liturgy of the Presanctified" comes from the celebration of Holy Communion on Good Friday. Since, in the Latin Church, it is forbidden for a priest to consecrate the Eucharist on Good Friday, (which means that there is no Mass) the Holy Communion received by the Faithful on Good Friday was consecrated on the previous day, Holy Thursday. Hence the term "Presanctified" in other words "previously consecrated. Does that help?
Silouan, monk

Monk Silouan,

Thank you for coming to my aid - but I fear I was doing a little nit picking - mea culpa.
The reason I had queried Remie was because of :-

<<I know that the Mass of Holly Friday of the Latins is called "Liturgy of the Presantified", but I don't know if they also put the word "Divine" before.>>

The reason I went and checked in my Missal was 'cos I had never heard it referred to in those terms here in Glasgow.

As you so correctly stated Mass cannot be celebrated on that day and at the time for Communion, after the Veneration of the Cross, the Ciboria are brought from the Altar of Repose where they were placed after the Evening Mass of the Lord's Supper the previous night.

I was just wondering where he had heard the term of 'Liturgy of the Presanctified' actually used in the Latin Church - since when I actually had mentioned it under that name at a meeting in our Parish - no-one actually knew what I meant.

Angela

[ 09-12-2002: Message edited by: Our Lady's slave of love ]

Dear Remie,

As you know, "Mass" was a popular way of referring to the Western Divine Liturgy as a form of "Missa" taken from the final prayers.

One problem with identifying this term in the West is that "liturgy" stands for all public prayer including the Divine Praises.

The pagan Romans used "liturgy" to refer to any public service in the secular sphere undertaken by administrators.

We see the term "Liturgy" referring to "Mass" in the writings of Western Fathers, as Bl. Seraphim Rose shows in his book on Orthodox Gaul.

Alex

It used to be called "Liturgy of the Presanctified" in the early days, before the Liturgical reforms.

Dear Angela and the 1000-post Man,

The "Liturgy of the Presanctified" was widely applied in the Latin Church because of the fact that it isn't a true "Mass" in the sense of possessing a Eucharistic Canon, but is considered a part of the "Liturgy of the Hours" with Communion.

"Liturgy" in the Latin Church tends to be applied more to the Hours and blessing rites than to the Eucharist.

Alex

It applies to more than the Divine Liturgy in our Tradition, too--but many Greek Catholics have no consciousness of any other form of liturgy than the Divine Liturgy.

Hmmm

Fascinating this - more little things seem to be emerging from the depths of my memory

Actually we are all right - nowadays in the RC church here [ can't answer for you folk on the other side of the pond ] we do talk about the Liturgy of the Word - meaning the part of the Mass up to the end of the Prayers of the Faithful when the light over the lectern is turned off [ or should be providing the readers remember so to do ] and the Liturgy of the Eucharist which follows.

I always did say that I was being educated here so once again

Let the education continue - ooh please do carry on with it

Angela