www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Byzantine Seminary

Better tell all our overweight, chain-smoking, beer-guzzling priests to lay off the pieroghi and halushki, go cold-turkey, put the Iron City back on the shelf and break out the Stair-Master, because we can't afford to have them keep keeling over at age 55--it's just so damned selfish of them to up and die while our bishops are making up their minds.

No, it's not reasonable at all, especially since they've already had about twenty years to consider the magnitude of the present problem, and to formulate ways to deal with it. We didn't just wake up this morning and find the seminary empty--it's been empty for quite some time. But our bishops have had their heads up their nether fundaments for so long that they apparently either never saw, or thought that if they didn't look, it would go away (or at least, the crisis would occur on someone else's watch: Apres moi le deluge). There comes a time when planning, thinking, contemplation, discernment, prayer, obsfuscation, temporization, and procrastination have to end. "Either do or do not, there is no 'try'"--Master Yoda, "Return of the Jedi".

Actually, I am not at all sure that the Roman model of seminary education, which was a product of the Counter-Reformation is at all suited for the Eastern Churches, which have an entirely different approach to theology and spirituality. I am not at all sure that the Latin approach is doing such a good job for them, for that matter. I have heard similar arguments about the unique qualifications the military service academies provide for those who become officers, but I note that good officers come from a variety of sources, and that some of the best had no prior military education whatsoever. I also note that different armies have different approaches to the selection and training of officers, and that many produce a product equal or superior to that of West Point, Annapolis, or Colorado Springs.

So, too, with the Church. There are many ways that men are formed for the priesthood, not just the seminary. Academic education is not, cannot be, either the defining characteristic or the necessary prerequisite for ordination to the presbyteral ministry. Rather, as in the time of the Fathers, we should be looking for men who live holy lives and who have the charism of leadership that they can exercise within their community through the presbyterate. Everything else is (to use a Latin term), "incidental".

Our Ruthenian Church has never had a vocation shortage. Our parishes have produced countless vocations for the Orthodox Church.

A priest friend once told me that over the years probably a hundred or more of our young men went on to become Orthodox priests. Most of these men presumably chose Orthodoxy so that they could have the option of marriage. Just imagine how things would be different today if we had been able to ordain them in our Church? We would have an ample supply of priests.

I've said this before, and I will say it again: mandatory celibacy has not worked for our Byzantine Catholic Church. It may work very well for the Latins, but is has been disasterous for us in more ways than one. It is a discipline completely foreign to our Eastern patrimony, and is not at all suited to our situation. The forced celibacy is an open, gaping wound that has been slowly bleeding our Church for almost eighty years. Until this wound is healed, we will not be as healthy and vibrant of a Church as we could be. But when this tradition is fully restored, which hopefully will happen in my lifetime, then we will truly be an Eastern Church, and the world better watch out for us!

Anthony

If you can find a married candidate, discern that his vocation the priesthood is real and find a way to have him fully formed with a MTh in six weeks I�m sure the bishops would be all ears.

Yes, there has been much opportunity lost. But we have a new slate of bishops and you cannot blame these individuals for the errors of the past. Give them prayers, encouragement, suggestions and some time to work. The wounds caused by mandatory celibacy were long in the making. They will not heal overnight. I would be quite happy if one solid married candidate presents himself for formation in the next year or two.

Blasphemy!!!

Admin.,

You've made a very good point. It may take years to undo the damage caused in the 1920s. Our parishes have become accustomed to supporting celibate priests, and it may take some preparation for them to adjust to supporting married priests with families.

Are the bishops waiting for qualified married candidates to present themselves? I am not convinced that this is the situation. How can we possibly expect any married candidates to present themselves when they are not even aware that the doors are open to them? Right now everyone is under the long-standing impression that only celibate candidates to the priesthood are desired. If our bishops are now open to ordaining marriend men to the priesthood, there should be some sort of announcement so that married men are made aware of the option. We can't expect anyone to come forward otherwise.

Regarding the numbers at the seminary: if St. Vladimir's Seminary (OCA) or Christ the Saviour Seminary (ACROD) were told to only admit celibate candidates for the priesthood, do you think they would have more than three guys left? Probably not.

It is my fervent hope and prayer that our new team of bishops has a plan of action to rectify this sitation ASAP. Perhaps the fact that our seminary population is down to only three men will inspire them to move quickly.

Anthony

[ 09-05-2002: Message edited by: Dragani ]

I understand that the Orthodox are struggling for candidates too. Many main line Protestants are in need of clergy. They ordain both men and women. So celibacy is not a problem with them.

Oh, how true. I went up to South Canaan, PA to visit St. Tikhon's Monastery, and spent some time in the cemetary (Fr. Alexander Schmemann was there, so this was sort of a pilgrimmage for me), and as I looked at the very familiar names on the graves of the many priests, monks and deacons buried there, it struck me that without the Greek Catholics, it would be a much smaller graveyard.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Administrator:
[QB]

>>>If you can find a married candidate, discern that his vocation the priesthood is real and find a way to have him fully formed with a MTh in six weeks I�m sure the bishops would be all ears.<<<

Now who's being sarcastic? In fact, I think there are plenty of married men in the Church who are quite ready to be priests today. Most of them carry the orarion on their shoulder. Of course, it means a reduction in grade, but there might be a few who would accept the offer.

I spend a lot of my time around academics and people with advanced degrees. It's made me very cynical about formal higher education. I know a lot of very well-credentialed imbeciles. I know a lot of priests who have been through the formal Latin seminary process whom I wouldn't let anywhere near a parish. Conversely, I know a lot of men who, without any formal theological education, would make very good priests indeed. The charism of priesthood and academic training are not really related to each other--it's just our perception that they are, a perception we gained from mindless imitation of the Western Church. And look at all the good it's done them over the years.

>>>Yes, there has been much opportunity lost. But we have a new slate of bishops and you cannot blame these individuals for the errors of the past.<<<

Yes, I can. Where were their voices, when they were deacons or priests? Someone once told me, "Rome doesn't select our bishops for their big ones"--which seems quite true. As compared, e.g., to the character and moral courage consistently displayed by the Melkite Synod, or even the hierarchy of the UGCC, we get ditherin, cautious old women. I would dearly love to be proven wrong, but I haven't seen anything either historically or to date to give me much optimism in that direction.

>>>>Give them prayers, encouragement, suggestions and some time to work. The wounds caused by mandatory celibacy were long in the making. They will not heal overnight. I would be quite happy if one solid married candidate presents himself for formation in the next year or two.<<<

See, here you accept the Latin understanding that a "vocation" is something that falls out of the sky and hits someone on the head. "Hey! The Holy Spirit just told me I should be a priest". That's not really the Eastern way. Rather, a priest is someone selected by the community to serve it. The priest is the perfect layman, the one who demonstrates the finest attributes of Christian life, whether he is married or celibate. We, the People of God, discern who those men are, and it's up to us to call them out, to push them forward. It's up to our bishops to ratify our choices and "elect by the laying on of hands" (the early Church was highly suspicious of men who wanted to be priests; Chrysostom said that a wise man would flee from the priesthood, if possible). Until we get it through our minds that praying for vocations won't cut it, that we have to actively recruit and/or subborn men who would make good priests, we're not going to get many. And when we call these men out, we should pay absolutely no attention to their marital status.

[ 09-05-2002: Message edited by: Diak ]

[ 09-05-2002: Message edited by: Diak ]

[ 09-06-2002: Message edited by: J Thur ]

Slava Isusu Christu!

The bishops of most of the Ukrainian Catholic eparchies have been importing priests for years to the US, most of them married. Several Canadian eparchies have also done this. My two last pastors before the current one were both married "imports". The percentage of married clergy in the UCC's Eparchy of Chicago has been increased through this practce to about 50 %. I think Stamford's percentage of married would be about the same. Bishop Losten in the Stamford Eparchy of the UCC has ordained a couple of married men last year and is planning to do some more.

St. Basil's seminary in Stamford, Connecticut is housing some imported men who will be taught English and formed for service in the US. St. Josaphat's Seminary in D.C. has a few of these as well.

The vocation shortage is cross-jurisdictional in the US. It affects the RC, Protestants, Orthodox, and Eastern Catholics as well. I heard a report on the radio yesterday about several seminaries closing in Ireland which used to all be full.

Bringing in "imports" is only a bandage for a deeper wound. In several Eastern Catholic eparchies there are bishops who have ordained married men or gone on record to say they would ordain married men (Ukrainian and Melkite). But there is still a shortage even in these eparchies that have or will ordain married men, unless they continue to import for the time being.

An unfortunate circumstance of the jurisdictional split of the Pittsburgh metropolia from the Ukrainain Catholic Church, certainly not forseen in the original canonical separation, is that there is no mother church from which to import priests until the vocation situation can be stabilized. The UCC has L'viv, Ivano-Frankivsk, the LTA and other seminaries in Eastern Europe to provide men for the Ukrainian Catholic Church worldwide.

This is another reason why we should consider an inter-jurisdictional effort at combining seminary resources. Keeping a seminary open for half a dozen or less seems rather futile when there are other seminaries with faculties that could be combined and strengthened. This inter-jurisdictional seminary approach has been used by the Orthodox, specifically with regards to St. Vladimir's and to a lesser degree with Holy Cross.

One of these days we will have to start thinking out of these little jurisdictional boxes we have worked ourselves into and look at the bigger picture for the Eastern Catholic churches of the USA and consider what is best for everyone.

[ 09-06-2002: Message edited by: J Thur ]