www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall What is Opus Dei?

As the topic states, I am interested to find out what Opus Dei is. Also, I would be interested in heaering about Byzantine Catholic or Orthodox points of view, if there are any.

Daniil

Dear Daniil,

While I'm at it, let me say that Opus Dei is a religious movement, like an Order, that was founded by Bl. Josemaria Escriva, who will be canonized a saint this year.

They are a wealthy order of traditional priests.

Some say they are almost like a cult, but are extremely loyal to the Pope and traditional Catholic faith and morality.

God bless,

Alex

The Catholic Encyclopedia has (if I remember correctly) a fairly substantial article on OD and their history. You might find that a better source of information than anything else.

As Eastern Christians, we are not on their radar screen.

Blessings!

Hi Daniil --

Before I became Orthodox, I was a cooperator in Opus Dei. A cooperator is not a full member, but one who helps in activities, etc.

Opus Dei is a Roman Catholic group devoted to sanctifying daily work while partaking in the sacramental life of the Church. There are three types of full members: priests, numeraries (celebate laymen and women) and super-numeraries (married laymen and women).

A day in the life of a numerary would be the following:

Rise from bed and engage in silent meditation for about 30 minutes.
Attend daily Mass
15 minutes silent prayer after Mass
Go to work (secular jobs)
Pray the Angelus at Noon
Come home from work
Eat dinner
Pray the rosary
Meditate on the other 10 mysteries
Read daily gospel
Silent prayer for about 45-60 minutes
Go to the Get Together (spend 30 minutes talking with fellow numeraries)
Additional prayers at night
Go to bed

In addition:

Go to confession every week
Go on yearly course (2 weeks a year)
Attend the Circle every week

Opus Dei is very "Roman" in its outlook. Ultra-montane and hightly Thomistic. The spirituality is as far away from an Orthodox spirituality as you can get...big time (as Dick Cheney would put it).

I didn't stay with OP long because of this. Opus Dei caters to highly educated, upper middle-class people. 99% of all OP Centers are situated around a major university...this way they can recruit individuals who will have an advanced degree and high earning potential. Kinda sounds like something Mormons would do.

Go to opusdei.org
Opus Dei [opusdei.org]

Thanks for all the replies. Yeah, I heard it was kinda cultish, and so I wanted a second opinion.
Thanks.

Daniil

Dear Daniil:

The "Prelature of the Holy Cross and Opus Dei," or OPUS DEI for short, is the first (and, I think, the only one so far) personal prelature in the Catholic Church. It was erected by Pope John Paull II as his personal prelature on 28 November 1982. It was founded by Bl. Escriva in Madrid, Spain on 02 October 1928. It is international in membership having about 80,000 from more than 70 countries, and about 3,000 to 4,000 of them from the U.S.A. As can be gleaned from the name of the organization, it is composed of both the clergy and laity. It has its main center in Rome and is under the control of the Pope thru the Sacred Congregation for Bishops. Contrary to Dr. John's opinion, I think it is open to ALL Catholics.

To quote Fr. John Trigilio:

"Opus Dei is neither a religious order, like the Dominicans, Franciscans & Jesuits, nor is it a Secular Institute or religious movement, like
Cursillo or Charismatic. It is a Personal Prelature, 95% which is laity and only 5% clergy. It was founded by the late and recently beatified Blessed Jose Maria Escriva in the early thirties in Spain. Well before Vatican II taught the UNIVERSAL CALL TO HOLINESS of all the baptized, Msgr. Escriva sought to promote a spirituality for the laity. Previously, the only spirituality was that of the religious monks and nuns. The monastic life, especially the rule of St. Augustine and St. Benedict was the keystone of spirituality. The mendicant orders, Dominican & Franciscan, were a modification of these. The parish priest, i.e., the Diocesan (Secular) Priesthood was a further modification of those. Hence, all Priests, regular (religious) or secular (diocesan), must pray the Divine Office. The Liturgy of the Hours is designed in a monastic style, with the hours of the day broken up as the monks divided their day.

The laity had to adapt and dilute the already attenuated monastic spirituality for themselves. Consequently, laypeople had no spirituality
which was uniquely their own. It was nothing more than a watered down version of a religious spirituality. Msgr. Escriva found this
unacceptable, save for those laity who felt called to embrace the Third Order (tertiaries) of Dominicans, Franciscans, Carmelites, et al. He
devised a spirituality of and for the laity. OPUS DEI, the Work of God, is a means by which the Catholic Faithful sanctify themselves and the
world in which they live and work. It is comprised of all walks of life, doctors, lawyers, homemakers, teachers, students, bus drivers, retirees, etc. The goal is for each member of Opus Dei to bring their Roman Catholic Faith into their WHOLE life, home, work & play. As leaven in the world, the laity being IN the world bring Christ and the Catholic Faith INTO that same world by the way they practice their Faith. The clergy's function is to HELP the laity find their spirituality and to help them bring the FAITH to the world.

Opus Dei, then, is a vehicle by which its members sanctify the world by sanctifying themselves in whatever situation and condition and vocation
they find themselves. The so-called "secret" of Opus Dei is that the members do not wear their religion on their armsleeves. They are very
well read in the Magisterial teachings of the Church, are very loyal to the Holy See, and they quietly but effectively defend Church dogma and
faithfully practice their Catholic Faith 24 hours a day without crediting it to Opus Dei,
necessarily. Their absence of self-publicity breeds contempt from their enemies who see them as clandestine. In reality, it is nothing more than humility. Opus Dei members study the Faith and they INFUSE Catholic virtues into a secular world and secular society. Rather than selling out to the social mores of the pagan culture like modern sycophants, Opus Dei members uphold the moral and doctrinal teachings of the Church and encourage all men and women of all faiths to obey the Natural Moral Law. Due to their resistance of diluting Church law, many opponents accuse Opus Dei of being anti-ecumenical.

All in all, Opus Dei is a superb method for any Catholic Christian to know their Faith more fully, to create a concrete strategy for Christianizing the world and to build up the kingdom of God via ALL members of the Church, lay and clergy. As it is more cerebral and
intellectual, it may not attract everyone just as the Cursillo and Charismatic Movements are not for everyone either. It is fully legitimate and fully recognized by the Church, from the Roman Pontiff on down. All I can say is to check it
out by attending a day of recollection, make a retreat or talk to some members of Opus Dei to see if it is for YOU. Read Msgr. Escriva's
monumental work, "THE WAY" and see if it helps you in developing a spirituality; a plan of life. If not, at least it won't be a waste of
time by any means."

A group I have recently heard of is Miles Jesu.

They seem to have a healthy understanding of the Eastern Church, going so far as having a section of eastern prayers in their group prayer book.

They also have a small book titled A Comparison of the Eastern and Western Liturgies.

I will see if I can find more out about them after Easter.

There web site is at http://www.milesjesu.com/

If you click on the General Information link you go to a web page that has a picture of their founder, Fr Duran. With the vestments he is wearing, the hand cross he is holding, and the icons in the background, it appears that he is somewhat eastern, doesn't it.

Any one know anything about them? Or should I find out and share with all?


Your brother in Christ,
David

Dear Daniil:

If I may add, the OPUS DEI is not a cult nor is it "cultish." It is just that it requires more commitment.

By the way, the conversion of the famous Jewish abortionist, Dr. Bernard Nathanson, and author of "Aborting America" and "The Abortion Papers" is credited to the persistence of an OPUS DEI priest.

Yours in Christ.

Thanks, Greg, for that information. I always had the impression, when I was a RC, that this was an organization largely comprised of elites -- sort of an elite prelature within the Church. Dr. Joaquin Navarro-Valls, the noted spokesman for the Pope, is a member of O.D.

Brendan

Yes, Miles Jesu people are in L'viv, and their parish is the only one in the city - Orthodox or Greek Catholic - with traditional style iconography!

Good point, Amando. I guess people that devote their lives to something that is not completely sociallly accepted are considered cultish sometimes. No wonder my friends think that Eastern Catholicism and Orthodoxy is weird.

Daniil

Here in Glasgow [ I don't know about elsewhere] we have 2 houses for Opus Dei members . They live in community there , going out to work and return to the houses at night. I don't know if it is common practice. Even the name plates for the houses do not mention Opus Dei.

Very little seems to be known about them - other than what has been entered above - this to me seems a shame as it suggests a secretive side. The one member I do know certainly does not 'advertise' she is a member.

Examining the daily activities of the OD member, I think it would be very difficult for an Eastern Catholic to be a member. We don't have Mass/Liturgy daily; we don't do the Angelus; we don't do the Rosary, and so we'd have to find something else to substitute for each of these three. (I'm not saying that one couldn't do them; it's just that one would be doing syncretism, and that's a canonical no-no.)

My point in saying that "we are not on their radar screen" was not that Easterns couldn't join, but rather that they are intensely Roman Catholic, and that the rest of us are just not Roman Catholic enough for them. So, we are not missionized by them, which, of course, is good for us since we are trying to continue our movement East.

Blessings!

Dear Dr. John,

How would private devotions (which are free to be taken up by or left alone by anyone) and going to Mass in the rite of a Church with which you are in communion be canonically wrong (syncretism)?

It's a question of spirituality. Our Byzantine (and your Syriac) tradition have been developed over many centuries and an organic whole. The prayers (particularly) and the liturgical celebrations (generally) lead one in a specific direction perforce of the words, the music and body-movements.

Introducing other elements tends to lead a person on tangents. This is not good for one's spiritual progress because I fear that doing the 'crazy quilt' thing in spirituality may lead to all sorts of psychological/spiritual/theological places that are, for lack of a better word,: untested. The great advantage of following a consistent spirituality is that our ancestors have been there and done that and we know where it leads.

In addition, our spirituality has got to be in harmony with our community. We Easterns are really community oriented, much more so than the massive 'community' engendered by (non-Eastern) parishes in the U.S. (This is our secret!!! We are community!)

So, no offense to the other ways of doing things, but it's critical for us to be with 'our own' and to do whatever "we" do.

Blessings!

One of the posts above quoted them as saying that monastic spirituality is not the spirituality of laypeople.

That's why Opus Dei will never jive with Byzantine Catholics or Orthodox--there is no difference in spirituality between monastics and laymen, because the cornerstone of Byzantine spirituality is the Jesus Prayer, which can be prayed by anyone. The Philokalia, while written in a monastic context, is applicable to anyone. There is no strict division between monk and layman in our Church. All are called to put away the world. Renunciation is paramount.

In Christ,

anastasios

I am an Eastern Catholic in a serious relationship with a woman who is a member of Opus Dei (numerary? I think they are called). I have had friends involved with them, and as an RC organization, they seem top-notch: zeal for personal holiness, fidelity to Catholic teaching, etc. But they are VERY Roman in their entire outlook. Indeed, they are so much so as to be possessed--in my limited experience--of a certain hostility toward the Eastern Churches. A personal example: my girlfriend had to get permission through several layers of the OD hierarchy to even continue *dating* me since I am even thinking about the possibility of a vocation to the married priesthood! She was told that she would be kicked out of OD if she married me and I was ordained--even as a deacon! They are thus highly jealous of their "charism" as a "lay" organization. I find their line of argumentation here specious when considered in light of our situation.
On the "cult" charge, I've talked with my g/f about it, and I think there is nothing to it.
On the possibility of OD expanding into Eastern countries/churches, we've talked about this as well. I think, as others have already written above, it would not work given their 'plan of life' with all its rosaries, novenas, etc. There would have to be a whole-scale adaptation to Eastern customs, and given their fierce Romanism, I don't see them as being genuinely open to doing so.

Adam,

Of course she'd be out if you two were married. If you married, she would become your rite by marriage, and this is an exclusively Roman Catholic organization. :-) God Bless you and her.

ICXC NIKA,
-Nik!

I have to agree with Dr John.

This is a true story: My friend's in-laws operate and own a Roman Catholic retreat center devoted to encouraging lay participation in the daily office. Everyone on retreat prays morning and evening prayer together, as well as an afternoon office. Other than that, one is free to do spiritual reading, go walking, attend a lecture, etc during the day. It is a wonderful retreat center out in the woods with a full kitchen, dinning hall, chapel, classrooms, dorm rooms, etc.

Once the local Opus Dei center heard about this place they were overjoyed. Where they reside, they do not have the space to provide a full retreat. This became a dream come true.

OD asked permission to use the retreat center once in a while for their own retreats. Permission was granted. However, the one thing that the directors asked of OD is that, while on retreat there, everyone must join together and pray the daily office. OD said no and does not use the retreat center.

For OD, if it is outside the "norms" then it is not done....even if it is part of Roman Catholic piety.

Greg

Dustin,

You state in part: "...there is no difference in spirituality between monastics and laymen..."

But there should be and that is the problem. The monastic way of doing things took over the Byzantine Church and now we are left with the "everyone is called to emulate monastic spirituality" attitude which frankly I find offensive. While I do not think Opus Dei is something Byzantines should be joining, Msgr. Escriva was quite correct in insisting the laity have a spirituality of their own. This is something the Byzantine CHurch once had and needs to restore. While we can't go back to Constantinople Cathedral usages of the 4th century, I also don't think we should contiue insisting monastic spirituality is the only true Byzantine spirituality. The nonmonastic laity and clergy have a right to a spirituality that recognizes their different vocation. We are all called to theosis, we are not all called to the monastery. Why then should we insist our spirituality be the same?

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate

Dear Lance,

A very interesting question, and the whole world of "spirituality" in a modern sense calls for much study!

In my limited experience, I have found (especially in the western Church) the idea that there are many "spiritualities". For example, Jesuit Spirituality, Carmelite Spirituality, Priestly Spirituality, Marian Spirituality, ...the list is endless.

In that it is rooted in human experience, I suppose it is possible to reflect in such categories. But I think it is more "eastern" to look at one Spirituality, which has the Spirit of God as its source. Since there is one Lord, and one Spirit of God, there is only one "spirituality" insofar as it is rooted in God, and insofar as it is his gift in the human soul.

So, for an eastern Christian to doubt the existence of several "spiritualities" reflects this starting point. (I myself back away more and more from the idea that there are several "spiritualities" suited to different people or classes of people. Though there is much literature to offer the contrary theories.)

So when speaking about "monastic" or "lay" spirituality, I am cautious.

With that being said, I understand your point, and there needs to be a call to all people (lay, clerical and monastic) to renewal in the spiritual life. And the call must be suitable to the one called, or it will not be understood or grasped!

Curious thing about the Opus Dei (an organization I tend to respect and admire for much of what they have done for the sanctity individuals and for our Church and Society), is that if we were to describe their spirituality, can we really call it "lay"? To me, the vows they take (though technically private), the radical commitment to obedience, the manifestation of thoughts to the superior, the daily prayers, penances and mortifications, sums up much of what is commonly associated with the penitential aspects of monasticism? The renunciation is different of course, as I understand it, the numery does not utterly renounce the world (I am not an expert in "the work"), but stands in the world as a challenge and witness to all that is "worldly". I do not think it is so far from the monastic experience.

I think finding a way to preach and call lay people to un-compromising holiness remains one of the greatest challenges to our Church. The radical call of the Gospel is the thirst and deep need of our age. Opus Dei makes a great contribution, but it is not (and self admittedly, cannot be) eastern.

Perhaps a challenge can be issued? Is there a Msgr. (now blessed) Jose Maria in our midst in our Byzantine Church?

Elias

Are not the military dioceses a personal prelature?

Axios

Dear Fr. Elias,

Yes, I don't think we should be aiming for competing spiritualities (if there can be such a thing) as in the Latin Church. Rather, monastic and parish/lay spirituality should complement each's state of life and one another.

But I do think it is important that we recognize the differences in need and way of living the one Christian vocation and spirituality. For example, many people on this forum ask about a rule of prayer. What is often suggested to them? Byzantine Daily Worship, the Jordanville Prayerbook? Excellent resources, but appropriate for a working father or mother's rule of prayer? I don't think so, and I am sure you agree. The problem seems to be those who a serious about a prayer rule are offered a monastic rule, while those who can't possible practice that rule are left with books like Byzantine Book of Prayer. Again, a fine resource, but basically a missal with devotional material.

It has been over thirty years since Vatican II called for making the Liturgy of Hours a reality on the parish level and in the laity's life and yet no serious attempt has been made in our Church (or any Church as far as I can tell). Why has there been no attempt to produce a Byzantine version of Christian Prayer (one volume Latin Liturgy of the Hours)? We need something connected to our tradition yet suitable for personal prayer. This has to be the basis of any serious progress toward a Byzantine lay spirituality.

I also agree about Opus Dei. Blessed Jose had the right idea but the result looks fairly monastic/clerical to me too.

In Christ,
Lance

Axios,

The Military Archdiocese is just that an Archdiocese, although the nature of its jurisdiction is based on persons not territory. Opus Dei is one of a kind and a new breed, the only personal prelature in the Catholic CHurch, although there are territorial prelatures. (Why they aren't just made diocese I don't know) Also, Tridentines and Anglican-Users have been asking to be erected into personal prelatures as well, and some have suggested this is a carrot the Vatican is holding until the entire SSPX agrees to return from schism.

In Christ,
Lance

I know that Opus Dei falls pretty much squarely on the Roman side of the fence, but I recently received a call from a life-long friend who was concerned about her brother and his family... wondering if they were mixed up with some cult-like Catholic organization.

Margaret's dad passed away this spring. At the funeral home, her sister-in-law said that they (she and her husband) already have their wooden caskets picked out and that they will be buried in brown robes.

Margaret and her brother were raised Lutheran. Her brother became interested in the Roman Church during high school under the influence of one of his teachers (public school). In fact, he went to seminary for a year or so, but decided his calling was to have a family. His wife is a convert to the RC Church from a fundamentalist background. They now have six or seven kids (after several doctors told them that the wife could never have children!).

Margaret, who works "on the Hill" has heard of Opus Dei through some of her friends (all staunch Republicans), who have nothing good to say about the group. One of her friends even going so far as to call them evil. Suspicions were further intensified by the arrest of the FBI agent (name escapes me at the moment) who was arrested for selling secrets to the Russians.

Anyway, Margaret is confused and a little scared. Is this an Opus Dei thing? Everytime she or one of her sisters invites the family for a gathering, the response is usually, no, we will be in church or we have church activities. They also homeschool ALL their children. And they apparently have very strong ties to the University of Steubenville.

Margaret, who is divorced, is at that age that if something should happen to her, she wants to be sure her daughter is taken care of. (Her daughter has been attending a Catholic parochial school for the last several years. Margaret is delighted with the education and moral structure that her daughter is receiving.) She is very leary now of naming her brother guardian for her daughter should she die. Her two other sisters aren't really in the position at this time to take care of her daughter.

So, long story long... what's with the coffin and robe thing... is this an OD thing?


It's interesting to go on the Internet and see the articles related to Opus Dei... everything from the group being the salvation of the Western World to a dangerous (and political) cult.

The coffin and robe thing sounds as if they are members of the Secular Franciscan Order,formerly called the Third Order of St. Francis. Members of this are lay persons or secular clergy who wish to be a part of the Franciscan Order, but do feel a call to the religious life. They have a Rule of Life to follow, certain prayers every day and attempt to form their spiritual lives according to the spirituality and traditions of the Franciscan Order and St. Francis. One of the "perks" of being a Secular Franciscan or Tertiary, is the priviledge of being buried in the Francican habit...usually brown, but may be black or gray. Under certain circumstances it may even be worn while living. This doesn't mean they belong to a cult and because of their association with Franciscan University in Steubenville, I would assume this is the case with your friend's relatives. Hope this offers some light on the subject. Don

Dear Don:

Thanks for your speedy reply. I was pretty sure these folks weren't a member of a cult, but they had my friend kinda worried... the coffin/robe, to her, sort of smacked of the Heaven's Gate group.

Question... hypotheically, could one be a member of both a group such as Third Order Franciscans and Opus Dei?

Sweatin' it out here in D.C.

Nope.


If you are a secular Franciscan, you cannot be a member of another secular or Religious Institute.


Sharon


Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Sharon,
While this is true, that one could not be an Oblate of St Benedicte as well as a secular Franciscan, I am not sure it is true in regards to Opus Dei.

Opus Dei is not a secular or religious institute. It is a personal prelature. I think it would have to go to the statues as it says in Canon Law.

TITLE IV: PERSONAL PRELATURES

Can. 294 Personal prelatures may be established by the Apostolic See after consultation with the Episcopal Conferences concerned. They are composed of deacons and priests of the secular clergy. Their purpose is to promote an appropriate distribution of priests, or to carry out special pastoral or missionary enterprises in different regions or for different social groups.

Can. 295 �1 A personal prelature is governed by statutes laid down by the Apostolic See. It is presided over by a Prelate as its proper Ordinary. He has the right to establish a national or an international seminary, and to incardinate students and promote them to orders with the title of service of the prelature.

�2 The Prelate must provide both for the spiritual formation of those who are ordained with this title, and for their becoming support.

Can. 296 Lay people can dedicate themselves to the apostolic work of a personal prelature by way of agreements made with the prelature. The manner of this organic cooperation and the principal obligations and rights associated with it, are to be duly defined in the statutes.

Can. 297 The statutes are likewise to define the relationships of the prelature with the local Ordinaries in whose particular Churches the prelature, with the prior consent of the diocesan Bishop, exercises or wishes to exercise its pastoral or missionary activity.

As Canon Law has a different section dealing with personal prelatures I do not think they are the same.

This is something that has confused me.


David

Dear David,

Opus Dei operates very much like a Religious Order and to join it would mean to leave any particular Third Order one belonged to.

Their prayer pattern, such as what our dear and wonderful Brother, Don, discussed in his brilliant post (am I overdoing it Don? ), is very much like what one would do in a Third Order or as an Oblate.

The Secular Carmelites also have the privilege to be buried in the full Carmelite Habit, as do the Third Order Dominicans and some others.

Orthodox monks often kept their wooden coffins with them in their cells to remind them of their death.

St Theophilus the Fool for Christ of Kyiv kept food supplies in his cell coffin that he would later distribute to the poor (presumeably without upsetting their appetite by telling them the nature of the "cupboard" from whence it came . . .).

I knew one Franciscan Monk who, one day, I saw carry a bag of potato chips in his hood.

He said, smiling, "Alex, there are many uses for a religious habit."

And as his name was "Robin" well, you can guess what I called him . . .

Alex

I was once a cooperator in Opus Dei. It would not go over too well.

Greg

Dear Greg,

With whom?

Alex

Hi, I'm new to this forum but not necessarity to some forum members. I have heard many good things about this forum.

Regarding Opus Dei. I have tried to find out more about the following but to no avail yet. I recall reading that the founder of Opus Dei, Msgr Escriva, travelled to Greece early on in his founding of OD. I often wondered if he was looking into the Zoe movement in the Greek Orthodox Church. I think Zoe was at its zenit of growth and influence at that time. It has since run into many difficulties and has declined significantly.

One reason I think there may have been some cross-fertilization is that I believ in both Zoe and OD there are those called "numeraries" and "supernumeraries."

Zoe was a lay movement for preaching and catechesis with a strong moral base (criticized by some as puritanical - as some think OD to be as well). It was based, in part, on some of the religious orders and movements of the west, I believe.

I would love to know more about any possible linkage between Opus Dei and Zoe.

Maybe some of you know something along these lines?

Gerard Serafin

A Catholic Page for Lovers [praiseofglory.com]

Dear Gerard,

Welcome, Friend!

I don't very much if there ever were any such linkages!

Opus Dei has the approval of the Catholic Church and its founder will be canonized.

They remind me of what the Jesuits originally were.

They emphasize vertical holiness and traditional Latin spirituality which tends to reflect the "we have no time for the Christian East" emphases found elsewhere.

Alex

---"With whom?"

With Opus Dei.

Greg

Dear Greg,

Oh!

Could you give us an insight into the religious life of an "Opus Dei" member?

Or are you under some sort of vows of secrecy that would get you in trouble with the Inquisition if you break them?

One would think that if that were so, you were already in trouble for becoming Orthodox!

Alex

[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

While it may operate like a Third Order, it is not one.


While this is true, you can take a look at the Brothers and Sisters of Penance, they also have a rule of life, which is very strict, and a prayer rule, which resembles the prayer rules of some Third Orders.

But one may be a member of the BSP and a member of a Third Order because the BSP is a private lay association, as they say on their FAQ page at their web site.

http://www.bspenance.org/

Also, if you go to the Opus Dei web site ( http://www.opusdei.org ) their FAQ page says;

There are no vows in Opus Dei: Members make their commitments within Opus Dei simply on their honor as Christians.

I sent them an email question asking this though. I will post the reply when I get it.


David

[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: DavidB ]

Dear David,

Thanks for sharing that wonderful website!

I remember while on vacation in Nice that there were about seven Churches of different penitential groups.

St Louis de Montfort developed one and wrote a rule for it in which the penitents followed his example in carrying a rosary in one hand, and a cross in the other.

The rule outlined in the site you recommend can be followed by anyone, no matter under whose "orders" they are, be they wives or others!

Alex

Dear Alex (just addressing thy name brings chills of unworthiness to my being...I speak not in jest)

---"Could you give us an insight into the religious life of an "Opus Dei" member?"

Yes, I did on the first page of this topic, fourth post.

---"Or are you under some sort of vows of secrecy that would get you in trouble with the Inquisition if you break them?"

I'll take my chances.

---"One would think that if that were so, you were already in trouble for becoming Orthodox!"

They feel that becoming Orthodox is punishment enough! "What, you aren't ultra-montane like the rest of us? Ahh!!!! Evil heretic! Don't touch us with your non-celibate, under-developed episcopate, grape-leaves-lovin' hands!!!"

Greg

Dear Greg,

I am as innocent, naive and completely harmless as they get!

Just ask Brendan who would tolerate me for as long as his nerves could take me!

Sorry about anything I said that would lead you to react that way to me!

And sorry that I missed your earlier post - thanks for that outline.

May God bless you in your life in Christ as an Orthodox Christian!

Alex

---"Sorry about anything I said that would lead you to react that way to me!"

Huh? In my book you are the best! Each of your postings on this forum is like a precious jewel. I bet you thought that there was no one else that could be as sappy as you!


Greg

Dear Greg,



Alex

Well I got the reply back, here it is.

Dear David:
Ordinarily a third order helps its members to live the spirituality of the parent order in their secular life. Opus Dei has a spirit of its own which is directed t helping laity acquire sanctity and carry out an effective apostolate in secular life. A person who would try to be part of both, would find himself attempting to live two spirits at once. Thus being part of a third order is not compatible with membership in Opus Dei.
Thank you for writing.
Rev. Bradley Arturi

So I guess the verdict is in, you can not be a member of Opus Dei and of a Third Order but I do not really understand why.

One does not take any Vows in Opus Dei.

And if the spirituallity of the BSP is compatable with a Third Order, why isn't Opus Dei's?


David

[ 07-03-2002: Message edited by: DavidB ]

Dear David,

Speaking on behalf of Opus Dei, if I can be the Devils' Advocate here for a minute , I think I see their point.

The Penitents you mentioned are an off-shoot of the Franciscans and practice basic Franciscan spirituality as a Third Order would, although they are not such.

Opus Dei belongs to itself, so to speak, and practices its own framework of spiritual exercises and has its own orientation (whatever that is, I guess one would have to belong to fully get a sense of it).

Even the spirituality of St Louis de Montfort was linked to the Dominican tradition, especially his focus on the Rosary.

As such, the Catholic Church itself would teach that one could not belong to two different schools of spirituality, which would occur if a member of a Third Order such as that of the Franciscans or Carmelites, tried to become a member of Opus Dei.

Alex

Alex,

Feel free to play Devil's Advocate, I do so at times also, I find it helps in one's understanding of an argument to take the other side at times.

I understand what you are saying but there are Lay Carmelites and Lay Benedictines that are members of the BSP, so in essence don't they "belong to two different schools of spirituality"?


David

Dear David,

Gosh, you are good!

We really have to watch out with you, Big Guy! You are going to give Stuart a run for his money!

The point is I think you've stumped me.

Perhaps, and there is no honourable way for me to get out of the quick-sand you've plopped me into, it can be shown that the BSP is simply a way of life to do penance, rather than a comprehensive explication of Franciscan spirituality, even though it truly does spring from the Franciscan charism.

And therefore other Third Orders can belong to it.

But don't they get enough penitential exercises as it is?

Are they gluttons for punishment?

Alex

This post is just to move the slanderous title of teh closed post off the top line.

Axios

Thanks Axios! You are most truly worthy! Moe

My spiritual adviser is an OD priest. My high school and even a part of my grade school is influenced by them. Well heres a share in the discussion:

1. OD is just like a movement with its own spirituality.

2. There is really no OD priest, just secular priests who are members of the Priestly Fraternity of the Holy Cross (OD's version for priest members)

3. My Spiritual Adviser once told me that if say I'd become Franciscan, I MAY be an OD member but then the spirituality of OD is different... (conflicting maybe)

4. Yes they are very traditional. They say they are conservative... and explained it as those who do exactly what the Church states. (By the book)
Their celebration of the sacraments and rituals is very much applauded. Those who accuse Vatican 2 as too liberal and uncatholic must see how OD is doing Vatican 2.

5. Secretive? No, but advertize, neither too.

And no, I havent found an Eastern Spirituality version of OD.

And one more thing before I go, OD priests are good confessors

Dear Friends,

Personally, I feel that spiritual outlines and rules are good as guides in our way.

But they must be open to the freedom in the Spirit.

Otherwise, instead of "Opus Dei" (work of God) we are left with "Onus Dei" (burden of God).

And God never intended His Yoke to be a burden to us.

Alex