www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Deacons in the Coptic Orthodox Church

First, I realize that this is a question about the Copts and not Byzantines.

Right now I am reading a book by Fr. Mark Gruber O.S.B. called Sacrifice in the Desert. The book described a story about a five-year old boy that was a deacon in the Coptic Orthodox Church selected a paper with Pope Kyrillos VI's name on it from the three present. Somehow that led to him becoming the Patriarch of Alexandria and taking Kyrillos VI as his patriarchal name. The book made mention of there being many different levels in the diaconate...

Does anyone on the forum know what the diaconate consists of in the Alexandrian Rite Churches (Coptics specifically, but if anyone knows about the Ethiopians that would be great, too).

Cheers,

Cyril, confused about what constitutes the Alexandrian Diaconate

Here are some observations from my experience with Coptic Orthodoxy:

The Coptic Liturgy needs the participation of many deacons, both to serve at the Altar and to lead the singing. All men who serve in this capacity are called "deacons" even though they are usually in one of the "minor orders" of chanter/psaltis, reader/anagnostis, or subdeacon. So, a five year old boy would probably be ordained to the order of psaltis, but would still be called a "deacon" in the broader sense. All these men are vested in a tonia, equivalent to the alb or sticharion. The orarion is used and is worn differently according to rank, but I'm not sure how that all works out exactly.

I've seen these young "deacons" at Coptic liturgies, and it's always great to see young boys take such an active role in the Liturgy (especially such a complex one!). For example, at one Coptic Liturgy I attended, I saw a young "deacon" of about 6 or 7 do some chanting (I think it was the introduction to the Gospel) in Coptic, all from memory. Impressive, and definately a good way to keep your church alive.

The Coptic Orthodox Church does have "full" deacons, men ordained specifically to the diaconate, but they are rare in parishes. In contemporary practice, it might be more of a transitional ministry for men going on to the priesthood. Perhaps someone else knows.

Dave

One peculiarity may not be intentional: a Coptic "full" deacon tends to wear a mustache but no beard, while a Coptic priest is almost invariably bearded.

Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

So what does it mean if the man has a mustache, and goatee? Would that be a transitional phase of the Diaconate?

Michael

This forum should be renamed Eastern Forum. Questions regarding Coptics are most welcome.

I think there is some link between this and the DABTARA of the Ethiopian Church (for both the Orthodox and the Catholic Ethiopians, they are the ones who know the chants and psalms) and they were very young.

FR. JACQUES AND MARLON THE COPT

Fr Jacques was visiting Egypt when he asked the taxi driver if he was going to pray on friday:

- "No Sir. I am a Copt." Marlon said.
- "Oh really? How wonderful to find a Christian. I am a priest from France, a Benedictine!"

Marlon, an ardent Patriot for Egypt replied.

- "You stupid western monks! You don't know anything! I bet you probably think there is only one Pope, don�t you?!?"

The French priest, visibly angry answered.

- "Yes but what does this have to do with being stupid?"

Marlon, wishing to sound more polite, continued:

- "Have you ever heard of Pope Shenouda the Third??"

- "Of course I have," said Fr. Jacques. "But who is this other pope you are talking about?"

In the Ethiopian churches some of the deacons actually bake the altar bread during the Keddase (Divine Liturgy).
DD

Diak,

Great image! What's the story behind it?

Cheers,

Cyril

Dear Lost and Found - maybe that would make the man a full subdeacon?

Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,



Dear Father Deacon Diak, I second the request of Cyril. Please tell us about your new Avatar.

Michael