www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy David Petras: Time For The Lord To Act: A Catechetical Commentary On The DL

Author: David Petras
Title: Time For The Lord To Act: A Catechetical Commentary On The Divine Liturgy

Available from:
www.davidpetras.com [davidpetras.com]
Byzantine Seminary Press
P.O. Box 7626
Pittsburgh, PA 15214
byzantinepress@aol.com

Since this book is relevant to the current discussion on the proposed revision of the Divine Liturgy I am creating this thread as a placeholder for specific discussions of the book.

My book"Time for the Lord to Act" has been released and is available now from the Byzantine Seminary Press. Individual copies are $ 10, for 10 or more copies, $ 8 per copy.

Fr. Dave

Perhaps Father David might indulge with a list of the book's table of contents or a brief precis of its scope, to satisfy those who otherwise are finding it difficult to restrain themselves from speculating as to content and scope.

Alternatively, I'd suggest that folks be on the lookout for a review of it (which will, shortly I'm certain, be posted somewhere on the web, on someone's blog if nowhere else) or wait for whomever first gets a copy to post some info here.

A string of posts asking or speculating about it will serve little purpose and won't survive. Your cooperation in this regard is anticipated and will be much appreciated.

Many years,

Neil

I just finished skimming through the book. It appears to be a collection of Father David�s newspaper columns. There is nothing in the text that justifies any change to the Divine Liturgy.

Dear John,

That's disappointing. I was hoping for a vigorous defense of the changes. I've read the newspaper columns already, and, although there is much of value in them, they aren't written in order to justify the new liturgy. I think we need such a justification.

In fairness to Fr. David, he's not necessarily the driving force behind the changes. But, if that's the case, whoever is needs to write a defense. Otherwise, it will be perceived as clericalism, and I think will be a bad thing for our Church. I hope I'm wrong.

Not wanting to speak for Father David, I think his purpose was to offer catechetical reflections on the Divine Liturgy, not develop an apologetic for the changes.

I would argue, though, that such an apologetic would be an interesting read if he was so inclined to put one together.

Gordo

I have taken the opportunity to obtain this book, and spent a great deal of my time plowing my way through it. I use the expression �plowing� because of the style and manner it was written has made someone who enjoys reading on the subject actually labor to finish one chapter at a time. For a book that is supposed to be catechetical in nature, the only thing it inspires is tedium and confusion.

Examples of what I am implying are the author can not finish any given point without completely abandoning the point and jumping to another and repeating the same cycle. There are no footnotes or annotations, so one must assume the author is either uninformed as to his material and can not properly make his point, or that the material and points he is attempting to be made are not able to backed up by any sources legitimately. In some paragraphs multiple points or issues are attempted to be made at the same time leaving the reader in outright confusion as to what the author�s point is initially.

Because of the lack of reference and footnotes, the author builds an extremely poor case for any of the liturgical points that he is trying to make. Any historical background laid out shows very little if any correlation as to the original sources (again without specific reference) he alludes to. For a book that is supposed to be catechetical in nature I find that it teaches very little about something that is as essential to the core of Byzantine Worship, as the Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom. The only portion that I would state is adequate is the glossary of the book.

I found the book to be rather disappointing in that I am sure the author could have given a better explanation being that his background is in theological education. Instead of paying for this book, I could only recommend that the members of the Ruthenian Metropolia instead withhold the funds that would be spent on this book, and instead to take a special collection in order to have someone with experience and knowledge in catechetical writing be employed and possibly give a good catechetical explanation. Maybe then the book can live up to its title, �Time for the Lord to Act�.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I am reading Fr. Petras' book currently. I believe that it requires slow digesting, perhaps a chapter a day or less, which would be in keeping with the fact that much of it appeared as a series of articles. Reading it in increments gives time to reflect on Father's message. I am finding it worthwhile. I suspect other Ruthenians may also, but it is definitely not light reading even if only about 144 pages of text.

Jim,

I don't think the good Lord gave us that much time on our earthly life to read and digest that dribble. If you are going to print something that is supposed to teach, then do so. I found nothing in it with the exception of a glossary that would make it anything that would be used in any sort of educational sense. It never stated in the book, to read it and then take the rest of your life to get the what is really trying to be said. It is supposed to be a catchetical book.

Maybe the author should have spent sometime teamed with someone who actually knows how to educate. I stand by the points of my review, and could not recommend anyone wasting their hard earned cash on it.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dear Fr. Anthony,

Perhaps you could take one of the specific parts of the book and dissect it, so that others can see if you review has merit? I vote for the section on the antiphons, if there is one. Does he make an argument for their abbreviation?

I know you probably don't want to do that, but a point by point analysis of at least part of the book would make the case for the rest of your review. Otherwise, the review reads: "This book is bad. Why? Because it's bad!" If it's bad, show us some examples.

With respect,
Karl

Karl,

If you want to put the text up, I'd be willing to do so. But without any merit of reference on Father Petras' part I would state that anything placed up and argued is purely subjective. He should have thought of it before publishing anything like this. I stand by my premise, it teaches little in the way of justifiable fact, and by his ignoring to reference it only goes to prove it. If you reread the review, it states that quite openly.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Father Anthony and Karl,

My understanding is that the text was made up of his articles in epacharial newspapers like Horizons, which I generally enjoyed. If there are no citations, I think that it is an error in judgement on his part not to go back and add his citations for the benefit of the text.

It sounds, though, that the issues are far more than just a lack of citations...

Thanks for the initial recation/review. I look forward to seeing some of your analysis.

Gordo

Gordo,

There is nothing to analyze except the merits of the book. Without proper citations it is an effort in trying to impose one's subjective opinion over the other. Maybe the author should have thought of that, instead of trying to promote his own writings without any benefit of accepted scholarship.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I am wondering how other Byzantine Catholics (Ruthenian) are responding to Fr. Petras' book as well. I found his discussion on Tradition as opposed to traditionalism very relevant to reflection on liturgical changes.

Since it is known that I read the Byzantine Forum, I am noting only that I have seen Father Anthony's review of my book "Time for the Lord to Act." Since the review questions my personal writing style, ability to teach and scholarship, I feel that any response carries the danger of personal polemic. I am grateful to our Lord that so many have found it a valuable resource for their understanding of the Liturgy, and I pray that God will grant Father Anthony joy and all his blessings in the upcoming glorious feasts of His Birth and Baptism,

Fr. David