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Slava Isuzu Christu!

Why are a Chotki, a Komboschini, and a Broyanitasa costructed differently? (materials, divider bead placement, etc.)

How do the uses vary within each Tradition?

What is your favorite type and use?

Thank you!

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Slava na Viki!

I'm sorry to say I do not know. I have a chotki, but I'm not sure about the differences and reasons for those differences. But I'm sure someone will know!

Tim

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Originally Posted by InCogNeat3's
a Broyanitasa

A what?

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Slava Isusu Khrestu!

Broyanitasa ...Serbian word for Komboschini,

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Thank you!

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Bump

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Is anybody able to shed some light on this?

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�Both in the Greek and in the Slavonic Monasteries it is customary, as a part of the investiture of the Little Habit and of the Great Habit, and after the Sandals have been put on, to give a Knotted Cord to the Monk or Nun...This Cord corresponds, though very remotely, to the Western Rosary, which originated at a much later date...The custom of reciting prayers upon a string with knots or beads thereon at regular intervals has come down from the early days of Christianity...It seems to have originated among the early Monks and Hermits, who used a piece of heavy cord with knots tied at intervals upon which they recited their shorter prayers...The Greeks call the Cord a Komvoschinion (a knot and a cord)...The Russian name for the cord is a Vervitsa and Chotki.
�The modern Komvoschinion, as used by the Monks on Mount Athos, consists of 100 knots, divided into four equal parts by four large beads, with three additional knots in a pendant adorned with a small cross-shaped tassel. The Megaloschemos is expected to make daily 12 X 100 times the prostration down to the ground (metanoia), and in the evening 300 similar prostrations, accompanied with the following prayer: �Lord Jesus Christ, Son and Word of the living God, through the intercessions of thine all-pure Mother and of all thy Saints, have mercy and deliver us.� If, however, the prostrations, or metanoias, are imposed upon Monks as a penance, the accompanying prayer is: �Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon me a sinner.�...

�The Knotted Cord used by Russian Monks is the old Slavonic Vervitsa, which is made with 103 knots or beads, separated as follows by means of four larger beads: The first of the larger beads is followed by 17 small beads, the second large bead by 33 small ones, the third large bead by 40 small ones, and the fourth large bead by 12 small ones; and an additional small bead is added at the end. (The smaller for the Jesus prayer, the large to the Virgin Mary)...�

[Taken from, "Monasticism in the Orthodox Churches" by N.F. Robinson, 1964]

The division of the Russian version represent 17=the OT Prophets+St. John the Forerunner, 33=the number of years Christ lived on earth, 40=the number of lashes Christ received, 12=the Apostles.

Additional rules:

The Rule of St. Pachomius
http://www.saintjonah.org/services/stpachomius.htm

The Cell Rule of Five Hundred of Optina Monastery


If Divine Services are missed:
One schema for replacing the Divine Services with the Jesus Prayer is as follows:

Instead of the entire Psalter: 6000 Jesus Prayers
One kathisma of the Psalter: 300 prayers (100 for each stasis)
Vespers: 600
Great Compline: 700
Small Compline: 400
Midnight Office: 600
Matins: 1500
The Hours: 1000 (250 for each hour)
A Canon or Akathist to the Most Holy Theotokos: 500

The typical edition of the Chasoslav (Slavonic: Book of Hours), published in Rome in 1950 for the Ruthenian Church gives a rule of monastics using the Jesus Prayer which, when adapted, can be of use to us as well.

Make the sign of the cross upon yourself. Then say each of the following prayers accompanied by a prostration to the ground:

O God, be merciful to me, a sinner!
O God, cleanse me of my sins, and have mercy on me!
O Lord, You are my Creator, have mercy on me!
O Lord, forgive me, for I have sinned without number!
O Virgin Lady, Mother of God, save me!
My holy guardian angel, protect me from all harm!
Holy (your patron saint), pray to God for me.

Now we pray the Jesus Prayer:

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.(100 hundred times)

Some believers use a rope rosary of one hundred knots with larger knots dividing them. This aid is called a chotki. On the larger knots, we pray:

O most holy Mother of God, save us!






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Thank you very much Father.

Why are some Chotki made from wooded beads while others are wool? Is it because some regions have forests and fewer sheep whereas other regions have little lumber but lots of sheep?

The description of the Russian Chotki is especially interesting. Why are these "Rosaries" on istok.net divided into five decades rather than "103 knots or beads, separated as follows by means of four larger beads: The first of the larger beads is followed by 17 small beads, the second large bead by 33 small ones, the third large bead by 40 small ones, and the fourth large bead by 12 small ones; and an additional small bead is added at the end."?

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Lestovka -

3 small rungs, gap, 12 small rungs, 1 large rung, 38 small, 1 large, 33 small, 1 large, 17 small, gap 3 small.

Spasi Khristos - Mark, unworthy monk.

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Thank you Father.

Do you have any good Lestovka sources?

I'd like to buy one relatively soon.

Where can I get good directons for using a Lestovka?

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http://easternchristiansupply.biz/products.cgi/c48/c540

http://www.churchofthenativity.net/

Go to the bookstore part of the last web address and look under miscellanous.

Spasi Khristos - Mark, unworthy monk.

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Slava Isusu Khrestu

Blahoslovi Otche Marko

In the description of the Lestovka, I read that there are four leaves and between the leaves are seven movable pieces in token of the seven sacraments.

When I was "very small" I remember taking her Lestovka and (to my shame) pulled apart the leaves. After reading your entry I went on a hunt to see is I could find it and fortunately I found her old Lestovka and other religious items in the attic in her trunk form the old country and took a close look at it and could not find the any movable pieces. I noticed that I had not, those many years ago really pulled it completely apart and noticed that the four leaves were actually fussed together. Is this the way it is supossed to be?

Z Bohom
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Nycholaij - The Lord bless!

Having never pulled the lapostky/flaps apart, I never know what to make of the movable piece claim! I do have one lestovka that's rather frail from two trips through the washing machine and there a gap between the upper and lower lapostky... but no sign of anything in there.

The flaps should really be stitched together and not glued.

Spasi khristos - Mark, unworthy monk.

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Dear Incogneat,

There is more than one tradition for using the Lestovka among the Old Ritualist Orthodox.

One tradition is to begin with the Prayer of the publican on the first three large steps. Then the Jesus Prayer is used throughout on the 100 small steps, punctuated with the Eastern "Hail Mary" on the three divider steps. At the end, the Psalmic Doxology is recited: Glory be . . . Alleluia, Alleluis, Glory to Thee, O Lord (3 x) Lord have mercy (3 times) and Glory be . . .

Seven lestovkas at a minimum should be said daily.

One can also use it to substitute for the Office:

6 Lestovkas each for Nocturns and Vespers.

4 Lestovkas for Small (and Middle) Compline, 7 for Great Compline

15 Lestovkas for Matins

1000 for the four Hours combined (1500 when the inter-hours are added)

As a rule, 3 Lestovkas can replace one Kathisma of the Psalter which is divided into three Stases.

The Rule of St Pachomius calls for one Lestovka at the beginning of each hour of the day and night.

Alex

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Slava Isusu Khrestu!

Blahoslovi Otche Marko!

Yes washing machines have received many strange items!

Thank you for the information.

I am so glad that my mother kept Baba's things from her childhood!

They now mean much to me and my religious heritage.

I must try to learn more.

Z Bohom
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Dear Friends,

Our Greek Orthodox monastery near Bolton, Ontario, make prayer ropes that have what they call "Martyria" attached to them.

These are small leather straps with ten moveable beads to count the number of prayer ropes one prays. EAch time one prays 100 Prayers, one moves a bead up. When one completes ten beads or 1000 prayers, one moves a bead on the other martyria and so on.

When the Elders pray thousands of Prayers daily, they keep count in this manner.

Was this not the intention of the seven moveable pieces of the Old Believer Lestovka?

Alex

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Dear brother Alex - the idea of the martyrion is an interesting possibility, at least as a feature of the lestovka that received a symbolic interpretation and then vanished in the course of time.

It would most certainly fit in with the rule of seven daily lestovky, recited 'before the icons of God' as one Slavonic source literally commands.

To return to that rule (which we have discussed previouly,and you know well, but is worth raising again), the three babochky at the ends are often used for allelias and the three large babochky used with the repective prayers, 'Remember me O Lord, when thou comest into Thy Kingdom' on the first, 'Remember me O Master, when thou comest into Thy Kingdom' on the second, 'Remember me O Holy One, when thou comest into Thy Kingdom' on the third.

All of these - like the alleluias - are generally accompanied by a prostration.

There are variants on the rule, with additional prayers at the end of each lestovka of prayers.

The first four lestovky are used with the Jesus prayer, with one each to the Mother of God, the Forerunner and the Guardian Angel.

Spasi Khristos - Mark, unworthy monk.

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Bless, Father Mark!

An honour and a great blessing to converse with you again!

The rule you described should also be said all week for those preparing for Holy Communion, should it not?

And during the Great Fast, the last 17 steps should be used to do the 17 prostrations of the Prayer of St Ephrem (?)

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

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The Lord bless!

The 17 steps are very useful for prostrations with the prayer of St Ephrem!

Generally the lestovka is highly practical, especially for priestless worship where Gospodi pomiloi replaces the litanies:

Take Great Vespers on the Eve of the Lord's Day -

12 after the proemial Psalm (first 12 rungs)
3 after the 1st Kafisma
40 after the prokimen (first large rung to second large rung)
12 after Spodobi Gospodi/Vouchsafe O Lord (first 12 rungs)

After the lity
40 (first large rung to second large rung)
then 30 (preliminary 3 + first 12 twice)
then 50 (12 + 38 small rungs)

The lestovka makes life easier when one is concentrating or tired and struggling to concentrate!

Spasi Khristos - Mark, unworthy monk.


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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
Dear Friends,

Our Greek Orthodox monastery near Bolton, Ontario, make prayer ropes that have what they call "Martyria" attached to them.

These are small leather straps with ten moveable beads to count the number of prayer ropes one prays. EAch time one prays 100 Prayers, one moves a bead up. When one completes ten beads or 1000 prayers, one moves a bead on the other martyria and so on.

When the Elders pray thousands of Prayers daily, they keep count in this manner.

Was this not the intention of the seven moveable pieces of the Old Believer Lestovka?

Alex

Are you able to provide ordering information for Komboschini with attached Martyria? If so, please do?

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Originally Posted by Fr Mark
The Lord bless!

The 17 steps are very useful for prostrations with the prayer of St Ephrem!

Generally the lestovka is highly practical, especially for priestless worship where Gospodi pomiloi replaces the litanies:

Take Great Vespers on the Eve of the Lord's Day -

12 after the proemial Psalm (first 12 rungs)
3 after the 1st Kafisma
40 after the prokimen (first large rung to second large rung)
12 after Spodobi Gospodi/Vouchsafe O Lord (first 12 rungs)

After the lity
40 (first large rung to second large rung)
then 30 (preliminary 3 + first 12 twice)
then 50 (12 + 38 small rungs)

The lestovka makes life easier when one is concentrating or tired and struggling to concentrate!

Spasi Khristos - Mark, unworthy monk.

Thank you Father.

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Dear Incogneat,

I'm away on another job, sorry for the delay in responding!

Their website is: www.stkosmasaitolosgomonastery.org [stkosmasaitolosgomonastery.org]

You can contact them to ask for a prayer rope with martyria. I've always asked for two, one attached to either side of the Cross, but they normally attach just one.

Cheers,

Alex

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Thank you

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Welcome back Father Mark!

Every lestovka which has passed through my hands (I've purchased a few for friends) has had the flaps sown together. One day I got curious and started poking and peeking into the spaces between the flaps of mine. As I was about to place another order I decided to take the plunge � I pulled out a knife and carefully cut the threads and separated the flaps. Inside the upper flaps, on the strip of leather connecting the lower ones to the rest of the lestovka I found seven moveable bits of leather. They don't move easily, but they do move. I've suggested to friends that they try, but not sure if any of them have found the courage.

_____
Господи Ісусε Хрїстε, Сынε Божїи, помилуй мя грѣшнаго.

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I've been familiar with the term "Old Believer" for as long as I've known about Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but it's only recently I've begun to investigate the practices they use. I apologize if I'm asking questions that have already been answered.

Do Old Ritualists have other prayers for the rungs of the lestovka, or do they only use the Jesus Prayer?

Are lestovka and vervitsa two words for the same thing, or are they different?

Why do some chotki have extra beads around the large dividers?

I didn't find either prayer ropes or martyria at the Web site for St. Kosmos Aitolos monastery. Is there another source?

Any help anyone can provide would be much appreciated by this unworthy beginner.

Many thanks!

In XC,


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Originally Posted by issai
I didn't find either prayer ropes or martyria at the Web site for St. Kosmos Aitolos monastery. Is there another source?

Any help anyone can provide would be much appreciated by this unworthy beginner.

Many thanks!

In XC,

I know this is an old thread but I had a hard time finding prayer ropes with a martyria on it so I thought I'd let you know that the Convent of St. Elizabeth:
http://conventofsaintelizabeth.org/index.html
sells prayer ropes (I've gotten a couple custom-made ones and they were great) along with martyria that can be attached to any prayer rope with a knotted cross.

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Actually it was St. Paisius Monastery, not the Convent of St. Elizabeth:
http://www.stpaisiusmonastery.org/



Originally Posted by searn77
Originally Posted by issai
I didn't find either prayer ropes or martyria at the Web site for St. Kosmos Aitolos monastery. Is there another source?

Any help anyone can provide would be much appreciated by this unworthy beginner.

Many thanks!

In XC,

I know this is an old thread but I had a hard time finding prayer ropes with a martyria on it so I thought I'd let you know that the Convent of St. Elizabeth:
http://conventofsaintelizabeth.org/index.html
sells prayer ropes (I've gotten a couple custom-made ones and they were great) along with martyria that can be attached to any prayer rope with a knotted cross.

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