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Russian Church snipes at patriarch

The recent troubles of the Orthodox Patriarchate in Istanbul took another twist yesterday after the Russian Orthodox Church said that there was no historical foundation to statements that Patriarch Vartholomaios is the head of all Orthodox Christians.

�The Russian Orthodox Church deeply regrets in connection with any unfounded restriction of freedom of belief of the Orthodox faith, wherever it happens, and never has doubted either the historical title of �Archbishop of Constantinople � New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarchate,�� the Moscow Patriarchate told the Russian Interfax news agency.

�When these titles appeared, the universe meant the Byzantine Empire,� the Moscow Patriarchate said, adding that the �Patriarchate of Constantinople is one of 15 autonomous local Orthodox churches and far from the most numerous one.�

A joint statement this week by Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis and the head of the European People�s Party, Wilfried Martens, prompted the reaction from Russia.

Bakoyannis and Martens expressed support for Patriarch Vartholomaios and demanded that Turkey recognize the Patriarchate�s legal status and stop interfering in its affairs.

In their statement, they referred to the ecumenical patriarch as �the head of the Orthodox Church worldwide since the 6th century AD� and �the spiritual leader of 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide.�

Sources at the Istanbul Patriarchate said that the �co-coordinating role of the patriarch cannot be doubted by anyone,� giving the example of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, which has appealed to the patriarch over its move to separate from the Russian Church.

www.ekathimerini.com [ekathimerini.com]

It's very interesting to me considering that the Holy See seems to have warmer relations with the Ecumenical Patriarchate than with the Patriarchate of of Moscow. Without trying to start an argument...my very best friends -- who are Greek Orthodox -- reject the primacy of Rome under the idea that the patriarchs are brothers on a council (among the theological differences). Why then would Moscow be trying to assert such a primacy if that belief holds true?

Honestly, I am not trying to be cute, I am asking this question in all humility. My fondest dream is to see the schism healed and our churches praising God as one...as we should be.

Thanks and God bless,
Missy.

This is indeed a tragic statement by the MP. Currently, the EP needs the moral support of all Orthodox Christians worldwide not this "sniping".
I remember when the EP visited North America and in all the official press releases, the EP was referred to as the "spiritual leader" of Orthodox Christians.
Perhaps the secular press on occasion has called the EP, the "head of the Orthodox Church", but I seriously doubt that the press releases coming from the EP ever did so.

I think it is time for all Christians, to morally support the EP and to pray for all Christians in Turkey.

The internal tension among the 15 Orthodox Autocephalous Churches became evident during the last Fall session of the International Commission in Belgrade when the official Orthodox delegates voted among themselves 13-1 (Bulgaria was not present)against a motion of the ROC-MP delegate, Bishop Hilarion of Vienna.

There is an uneasy feeling among the Orthodox Churches because Bishop Hilarion seems bent on disloging Met. Zizoulas of the EP as the Co-Chairman of the Orthodox delegation to the Commission. Cardinal Kasper Co-Chairs for the Catholic delegation.

The Commission is slated to meet again this Fall in Ravenna, Italy, and it should be without "fireworks" given this latest snipe by the ROC-MP at the Ecumencial Patriarchate!

Will the other Orthodox delegates make another united stand?

Clarification for my post...did I mention that I am a baby Byzantine (very, very, very obvious, I know but I thought I mention it anyway) and am very new to the Church? I was raised Latin rite and am pretty well versed as a Roman but I'm only learning the language on the playbill here. Please have patience with me.

Thanks and God bless,
Missy.

This squabbling among the local Orthodox Churches is why I am an Eastern Catholic, not Eastern Orthodox.

I'm a Latin Catholic. But I still am deeply saddened when any Christian offers negative comments about another, especially when the other is being persecuted.

I ask myself if people today can say with the ancient Latin historian, "See those Christians, how they love one another."

I also wonder if the fasts of Great Lent sank in--St. John Chrysostom, echoing the Desert Fathers, tells us that "it is better to eat meat than to eat the flesh of the brethren."

Or so I've been told.

In Christ,

BOB

Dear Bob,

I'm Orthodox, and I have always felt deep down inside, that the friction between the Orthodox Churches, and their jurisdictional problems will continue, until the Orthodox find it in their hearts and soul to make amends with their RCC brethren. There is something missing, and that is the first among equals; the Pope of Rome.

This is not to say that differences do not exist, nor that we should immediately embrace without solveing them, but rather that we should approach unity with a willing and open heart.

God Bless,

Zenovia

Zenovia:

I agree with you. However, I think that our eventual communion will have to be on the basis of some kind of understanding that on some theological areas we may have to accomodate each other's different approaches in ways that today would cause people to claim that cannot be. I don't pretend to know how that will happen, though it will in God's good time. We are involved in a Mystery that is bigger than all of our theological formulations put together. And the longer we go on without each other, the more difficult it will be to heal the wounds of a 1000 year estrangement.

I didn't mean it only for the Orthodox. We've got our own internal squabbles with people pointing fingers and making snide remarks about each other. On the other hand, families fight because people fight when they don't get their own way. Not many of us humble enough to back off and defer to another, even when that other is blood kin.

That's why I see Heaven as a chance to live in a small room--about the size of a college dorm room--with bunk beds, limited space, one closet, and the persone you considered your worst enemy in this world. If one learns to live like Christ does, it will be an eternal reconciliation and a pure joy because He will be involved. Otherwise it will be Hell because He will be absent and it'll be like a mongoose and a cobra in a box--without end.

BOB

Who's persecuting the Orthodox these days? There have certainly been times and places when the Orthodox were persecuted, but the same is true of virtually any Christian Church or ecclesial community (a Methodist of my acquaintance is fond of boasting that the Methodosts are among the very few denominations which have never persecuted any other Christian Church . . . he then immediately adds "of course, we never had a chance to persecute anyone!"].

Maybe that's one of the reasons why I find the Old-Ritualists so pleasant - they've certainly never persecuted anyone (and have never had the opportunity either).

Actually I can think of places where the Orthodox are persecuted - but these are places where all Christians are persecuted, so it behooves us to stand together (in Saudi Arabia Christianity is completely illegal; in most Mohammedan countries even if the Christians are "tolerated" no one is allowed to join them . . . and so on).

On that cheerful note,

Fr. Serge

Since there is no visible "head" to lead the Orthodox Church - as in teh Catholic Church with the Pope - freedom from Communism seems to provide the opportunity for fighting between churches. Did this go on when the Russian Orthodox Church was under Communism? Persecution seems to shut everyone up. Freedom finally lets all the baggage back out.

I first thought of glorious wonders of the Eastern Orthodox churches that survived under the godless Communism. Now, its back to old territorial fights.

Will the Church do itself in long before the Muslims overtake them? This reminds me of the infighting between teh churches when the early days of Islam saw the Middle East for the taking.

The Patriarch of COnstantinople looks like a sitting duck - by his own kind.

Still watching how this will all turn out. Another case study for the students of religion. I am sure ANY fighting amongst dirty laundry will provide ample opportunities for the church's enemies to us against them.

Eddie

My two cents:

Squabbling is as old as the New Testament. Just read Acts and St. Paul's letters. The Church has never existed in a state of peace and harmony and never will in this world. I think that this squabbling is unfortunate, but at least we are not squabbling over ordaining practicing homosexual ministers. Our squabbles are the old fashioned ones.

Of course, I do think that the Pope could play a positive role in mediating these kinds of squabbles, however I don't think that union with Rome will bring an automatic end to them either. There have been serious squabbles among Eastern Catholics and even among Roman Catholics. I see no guarantee that having a papacy will prevent or heal any of these squabbles.

Joe

Ed, there is just as much fighting that goes on in the Catholic Church. Indeed, some of the fighting is even more serious if you consider that it has to do with doctrinal, spiritual, and liturgical issues. All fighting and squabbling is sin but it is as old as the New Testament. (Actually, it is as old as fallen mankind)

Joe

The last time these squabbles got out of hand, Islam had a field day. Read your history. They know that when the shepherds squabble amongst themselves that the fences and gates are left unguarded. So many sheep to steal. That's if the shepherds don't kill them all first. If I was a Muslim, I would have fun with this - to my advantage. In fact, i would paint a huge bulls-eye around the patriarchal palace and let other Christians take aim for me. Westerners then can't blame me for allowing fellow Christians beat each other up. All a shame. And none of it is in the name of Christ. Will anyone come forward and state that all this is in the name of Christ and for the good of His church? You will know they are Christians by _____________
[please fill in the blank].

Eddie

This struggle within Orthodoxy is sad. The same thing goes for the squabbles in Ukraine. Not even 20 years ago, Communism still suppressed Eastern Europe, Catholic and Orthodox alike. We all ought to be about building up Christianity instead of infighting.

I'm not posting this to point a finger or to claim the Catholic Church is better - not at all. I feel badly for the EP and what Turkey is doing and has done to the Orthodox Church in Constantinople. A reunion with Rome won't solve this. Orthodox need to work this out among themselves without any interference from the Holy See. God knows, we have our own problems