www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Presov and Mukachevo eparchies have new bishops

Dear Tony,

Actually, you've told me everything already!

Alex

Dear Tony,

I see your point regarding what Fr. Joe has written.

But I am just wondering that if I as an Eastern Catholic critiqued an Orthodox consecration in any way, I would have my head handed to me by other Orthodox.

And I wouldn't be surprised - I'd be commenting about another Church of which I am not a member.

You don't feel the same thing in commenting on this matter here?

Alex

What I am very impressed with are the proper vestments that they are wearing.

E.g. the real Mitra. The real Omophor etc.

No attempt to distance or distinguish themselves from the Orthodox by their vestments.

Hopefully, this augurs well for their orientation and pastoral leadership/ministry.
- (optimistically) operating on the principle: "Look Orthodox, Be Orthodox" a la "look sharp, be sharp".

Axios! Axios! Axios!

Herb

ps: I'm still not thrilled with them being ordained by his All-Holiness, the Latin Patriarch, but giving them all the benefit of the doubt, perhaps they were ordained by their own chief hierarchs with his All-Holiness being the 3rd or 4th consecrating bishop - as representing the entire Catholic Communion in his capacity of Primus inter Pares and Bishop of older Rome, and as such giving their Churches especial honour and acknowledging their courageous and faithful witnessing as Confessor Churches who survived by God's grace their ravages of atheistic persecution to emerge out of the "catacombs" battered but unbowed - which persecutions were suffered for the sake of remaining and preserving that Communion with the Catholic Churches, so very important and precious to us (difficulties notwithstanding).

Dear Herb,

I can well appreciate your feelings.

But if the Pope ever called me to bless me personally or lay hands or whatever on me (he can give me a kick in the tail, for all I care, if his health permits), then I'M THERE IN A FLASH!

I'd even try and convince Tony to come along with me. He could keep me as Byzantine as possible during the ceremony, after all!

But I think His Holiness is well aware of the fact that Byzantine Catholics are very, well, Particular . . .

Have a great day!

Alex

Alex,

There is constant banter on this site about Orthodoxy. Orthodox laypeople and clergy are disputed with regarding Orthodox positions and practices by non-Orthodox.

You have spoken on behalf of Orthodoxy and yet you are not Orthodox; as far as I know you were not Orthodox before either. I was BC.

Posters on this board have made the assertion that their BC parish is no different from an Orthodox parish (I am not disputing this although I think it should be qualified), that was taken to substantiate the "Orthodox in communion with Rome" position.

I provided a link (thanklessly) to show some more photographs and together with that some comment. If you see the comparison with standard BC (and Orthodox) practice as a critique, well so be it.

Like you, last I checked this was a free country, I'll check again.

Tony

Dear Tony,

Sorry to have upset you, Big Guy!

I apologise!

We are free to say what we like, of course.

I was just thinking out loud about how an Eastern Catholic MIGHT be treated by Orthodox if he or she would comment on an Orthodox event.

And that BC's seem to mind less if an Orthodox commented on a BC event.

If I'm wrong about that, then I'm wrong. My own experiences indicate otherwise.

I wasn't accusing you of anything.

Gosh, you are feisty!

The Orthodox are lucky to have you!

(You are right, I've always been Eastern Catholic, although I'm less Latinized these days).

Alex

Alex,

No need to apologize. Commenting on the other church (usually Orthodox) and disputing with Orthodox about Orthodoxy seems to be the norm here.

Applying the old maxim "Sauce for the goose..." and merely comparing this event with what the BCs normally do, I don't see what the big deal is.

Now, with regard to Fr. Joe's comments about uniformity, I think they speak volumes.

Tony

Tony,
All the more reason why your "opinions" are suspect where Alex's may not be.

You describe yourself as :rolleyes: ,
All the more reason to suspect that you may have a bone to pick.....

As I have said before, it is very important to understand where people are comeing from when they post so that we can understand how to take what they say.

David

becoming more and more visible everyday! :p

rethought my post and decided it was unnecessary, sorry

double posting sorry

Dear David,

But don't delete it, whatever you do!

And thanks for the vote of confidence when you said my views "may" not be suspect.

I just don't know what Tony is on about when he talked about how we argue with the Orthodox about Orthodoxy?

Do you?

Perhaps that could be grist for another thread-mill.

Also, what does he want from our Fr. Joe?

I wish I could have in my brain what Fr. Joe carries in his shoes!

Alex

If you are right, I think it is a relational issue. BCs can look at Orthodox (and Orthodoxy) as a measuring stick for their own practices (this certainly seems to be what Rome has suggested). The reverse cannot be said.

Dear Tony,

That's an important point you've made and I agree.

Ultimately, Eastern Catholics are called to be as Orthodox as possible, using their Mother Orthodox Churches as the standard.

And when we fall short, that becomes a matter for legitimate criticism, to be sure.

What is your overall feeling about the consecrations by the Pope?

Alex

Alex,

I think the point is that Orthodoxy does not claim to be a bridge between the Roman Catholic Church and Itself, as does the Eastern Catholic Churches. Therefore, the term "Orthodox in communion with Rome" would seem, at least to me, that Orthodox norms would be upheld, in this case, in the consecration of bishops. Some see this episode as another sign of Roman superiority over the Eastern Churches. We can go through the pages of history and point to this or that isolated episode of Orthodox excess or suspension of a particular norm, but on the whole, the the practice of there being one laying on of hands by (multiple) all of the bishops present is an unquestionable Tradition. And of course, then there's the question of using Roman ritual to consecrate Eastern bishops, which is presumed in this case, although maybe wrongly. I think these are fair questions to those who claim the moniker "Orthodox in communion with Rome."

Priest Thomas Soroka

Only that from what little information I have seen they do not follow the normal BC/Orthodox rite.