www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall How could this be allowed?

"PS Pittsburgh and Cleveland are two different peoples like if one was Lemko and the other Boyko."

Pittsland and Cleveburgh are similar in this respect - neither are hurting for half-dead congregations of people who are in rivalry with other half-dead congregations that were built out of anger... sometimes driving past alltogether OTHER half-dead congregations to get to their own half-dead congregation.

I don't understand your soliloquy on pirohi workers and presbyteral Moses... Actually my comprehension on where you are going with this has been breaking down totally for the last few posts... so please forgive if I misunderstand or unintentionally misconstrue... but if you are calling out for Greek Catholics to consider a brand new schism and alternative jurisdiction... well, best of luck with that.

Most of us are all stocked up on crazy and parochial struggle. To be the progenitor of a split is a worriesome thing - I would not want to answer for the type of split I think you might be intimating.

Simple Sinner,

I am NOT promoting splits or defending schism. I am warning (not threatening) it is once again a possibility. To my knowledge non of these splits in the past were over theology, just someone being stubborn rather than Christian. If it takes tolerating a "Uniat" custom so what, it may be pre-Nikon and is actually with merit. Like Nikon just calling your way "orthodox" does not make your way better. If you are not seeing the forest for the trees it may be because you are seeing the wrong battles.

The men�s room need painted so the volunteer janitors doing the work bye yellow for the walls and blue for the ceiling. They see Ukrainian (or Rusyn) the priest sees IKEA. He refuses to cover their expenses and byes red for the trim, white for the ceiling and blue for the walls seeing American, the parish sees Russian Imperialism in the wake of the orange revolution. My thoughts if Ivan and Bill are doing the painting, let their wives pick the paint, it�s a bathroom.

Insignificant, ok when the parish was switched from Julian to Gregorian calendars on January 6 (old Christmas Eve) the church�s tree was openly set out in the trash with tensile glistening. Instead of saying we use to eat Holy Supper on the 6th, we will now gather as a parish to eat our Bountiful Supper on the fifth then all go to bless water as the original Christmas feast; Theorphany (Epiphany). Have we learned? No the new clergy announces if you want your Paschal baskets blessed it will only be done after the Sunday�s Liturgy with Matins (marathon). When asked why the answer is because Saturday the hall was full of strangers. It�s a counterreformation custom not Tradition. Why not have a Saturday blessing in the hall with the priest fully vested swinging the incense and pick a song with a catchy melody (When You descended into death, O Life Immortal�?). to repeat in both languags through the �blessing�. Add a scripture reading for the Protestants, give a TEN MINUTE talk for the RC then have all come to kissing the cross repeating the recently �learned� hymn. They came for an aromatic slice of home, give it to them. They may be busy tomorrow going with Mom and Dad to the Methodist Church but they may visit on Sundays in-between Easter and Christmas. Rather than being inclusive Greco Catholics we now prefer to be exclusive �Radical Orthodox�.

It�s hard convincing people that your right when the "other Ukrainian" Church doesn�t do it, especially if the "Russian one" does. Stop trashing everything as �Uniat�. Be a loving father not a Dutch uncle.

I believe this is the parish. It broke from the Clymer ACROD back in the 1990's.

http://www.christoursaviororthodoxchurch.com/

X.B.! B.B.!

Ung

X. B!
Yng
Yes.
Thankyou.
Mykhayl

Ung,

Any idea of what caused the split that made them go ROCOR? The Clymer parish was originally Greek Catholic!

I don't remember why they split, I just know it happened in the late '90's.

Ung

I think that I have some articles I found on the web when the split happened, at home. I'll try to look tonight and see what I can find.

How long ago where they Greek Catholic? From what I can tell, pre-ROCOR they were ACROD... And when they were formed, is hard to know.

Of course we could call the parish office and ask if they can have a member get online and share that info.

It goes back to the early thirties. St. Michael's was Greek Catholic and then broke away and joined the ACROD.

http://www.archeparchy.org/page/directories/parishes/clymer.htm

That as the case may be, it is reasonable to suggest that the Greek Catholics who were part of the parish orig are now enjoying eternal rest. It isn't completely inaccurate to say "And these were Greek Catholics" but it is rather misleading - they were off the homestead longer than a generation.

I think things are getting confused here. In Clymer, Pennsylvania there is a Greek Catholic parish, (St. Anne), And an ACROD parish, (St. Michael). Follow me so far?

St. Michael's was founded as a Greek Catholic parish and then went ACROD in the thirties. The remnants of the schism who stayed Greek Catholic then founded St. Anne's Greek Catholic church two streets away. The ACROD faction got the beautiful church building, the Greek Catholics basically have a storefront now.

According to an older gentleman at my church, (who is a wealth of knowledge of central Pa. Eastern churches), a faction of the ACROD parish got mad at the priest, left, and founded the ROCOR parish a few miles up the street about ten years ago.

No confusion - I understand what you were saying from the git-go... Earlier you identified this now ROCOR faction as "having been Greek Catholics" and my response is... well, maybe 78 years ago... They have been Orthodox-ACROD for quite a spell already... so it isn't as though disaffected Greek Catholics just up and opened a ROCOR parish a few years back.

Just thinking out loud - how many times does this have to play out before it is recognized that this is the surest way to ecclesiacide? Schism just hastens the decline... and it has happened in our collective communities far too much.

I have seen it happen between churches and jurisdictions and even among parishes in a fashion that varies from leaving to go under a new bishop, to simply getting permission to start a new parish under the same bishop down the road... (Locally what should be one really healthy strong parish is 5 small missions spread accross town and broken into several jurisdictions often - as far as I can tell - over reasons most people can't even recall!)

How thin do people think we can slice the pie?

X. B!
C.I.X!

S. S.

What is the reason, is there alternatives, we know the outcome.

M.

Filial obedience comes to mind... But that only evokes ire and anger when one suggests it, so I otherwise normally keep it to myself.