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Are chalices used in the Byzantine Rite consecrated or blessed? Could a chalice that has been used to celebrate the Divine Liturgy then be used to celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and vice-versa? Thanks.

This is put in an odd way. The Divine Liturgy and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass are the same thing: the Eucharist. The Divine Liturgy is the Bloodless Sacrifice, as is the Mass. (I deliberately put aside here all questions of doctrinal/ecclesiological recognition of the validity of the Mysteries/Sacraments between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches.)

Now, if you are asking if the Chalices proper to the Byzantine and Roman Rites are interchangable for use in either the Byzantine or Roman Rites of the Eucharist, the answer is: 'yes' and 'no'. If no Byzantine Chalice and Diskarion were available, one could serve the Byzantine Liturgy with a Latin Chalice and Paten in a pinch. The same would be true in reverse. However, each liturgical tradition has developed sacred vessels designed for its own liturgical rite.

Examples from a Byzantine point of view:

1. Placing a liturgical asterisk and Chalice Cover on a Latin paten is difficult because it is not designed for them.

2. Elevating a Latin Chalice and Paten in the Byzantine manner at "Thine own of Thine own..." would be quite awkward because the Latin paten has no foot to grab.

3. A Byzantine Communion Spoon cannot sit in a typical Latin Chalice without support.

Examples could be multiplied from both points of view, but perhaps these things are not what you were thinking of. If you clarify your question, perhaps a suitable answer can be formulated.

Fr David Straut

I was just curious if someone here happened to know if chalices used in the Byzantine Rite are consecrated or are they blessed? As far as the duel use, people often get offended over the oddest things -- particularly in the East it would seem and I am trying to avoid that.

When the Roman Empire sacked Constantinople in 1204, a great deal of liturgical gear made its way to the West -- principally to Rome and Venice I believe. Some of these old chalices are still in use for special occasions, others were in use for a long time before making their way to museums. These chalices clearly had an impact on the design of some Western chalices. I would think they influenced the Baroque style for instance. The presence of a Byzantine-style chalice in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass would be an positive way to honor history, to provide a solemn reminder of sorts and hopefully to provoke important questions from observers.

I think using such a chalice in the Mass would also admirably satisfy Redemptionis Sacramentum #105 (a Latin Rite detail): "If one chalice is not sufficient for Communion to be distributed under both kinds to the Priest concelebrants or Christ’s faithful, there is no reason why the Priest celebrant should not use several chalices. For it is to be remembered that all Priests in celebrating Holy Mass are bound to receive Communion under both kinds. It is praiseworthy, by reason of the sign value, to use a main chalice of larger dimensions, together with smaller chalices.

That's the only reason I asked. I don't believe I put anything in an "odd" way -- just a cautious one...

Actually it seems odd to me also. But anyway, a Chalice, once it is . . . shall we say, for this occasion only, "dedicated" ... for use at the Eucharist, is normally referred to as "consecrated".

Fr. Serge

"Dedicated" huh? That sounds rather odd. Here in the West chalices used to be consecrated -- now they are blessed.

"Dedicated" was not an actual term, just a part of speech.

Good, because it did sound rather odd...

A solemn reminder of what? The sacking of the Queen of Christendom? I hope that you aren't serious!

Alexandr

Why not? It's an important part of the Church's history. The booty also influenced later Western design...

Dear Mr. Chuy,

You write:

My post was not long, and you might have read the whole thing, in which it was made clear that I used the term "dedicated" for that one occasion only. The reason was that I did not wish to get into a controversy over "consecrated" or "blessed".

Otherwise, I fail to grasp your problem.

Fr. Serge

An important part of the Church's history? The sacking of Christendom by a bunch of drunken raping marauders? Pope John Paul II got on his knees to beg forgiveness of the East for the sins of those "valiant soldiers of Christ" (sarcasm intended). And you want to commemorate it as a "solemn reminder of Church History?" You have strange ideas as to what actions deserve commemoration. Why not have a special service to commemorate the Inquisition, or is that not an important part of the Church's history?

Alexandr

Chalices are blessed AND consecrated.

The Trebnik (Book of Needs) gives the title for such a service

"Chin blagosloveniya i osvyashcheniya chashi.."

"The Rite of blessing and consecrating a chalice"

The Prayer used in this service...

".... send down the grace of Thy most holy and all-sanctifying and life-creating Spirit on this chalice and on all its beauty, and bless, cleanse and consecrate it, as thou didst bless and cleanse and consecrate the chalice of Thy priest Melchisedek ..."

Alexandr,

Pope John Paul begged God to forgive the Catholics who had participated in the evils which accompanied the Crusades.

Here are his words when he visited Athens in 2001:

"For occasions past and present when the sons and daughters of the Catholic Church have sinned by actions and omission against their Orthodox brothers and sisters, may the Lord grant us the forgiveness we beg of Him."

Please see
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Fourth_Crusade#Papal_Apology_to_Orthodox_Church

Does anyone on the Forum have a Greek Agiasmatarion? If so, would he look up whatever it gives for the sanctification (there's another question-begging term!) for a chalice?

Fr. Serge

I believe that since the Second Vatican Council the chalice may be either consecrated or blessed in the Latin Rite Churches. There are many changes which are optional since Vatican II, but in practice in the US and elsewhere have become the "usual" way of doing things. I am aware of chalices still being consecrated in the Latin Rite.

Here is one site which touches on this topic somewhat, in answering a different question: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/02/scholion-consecration-of-a-paten-and-chalice/