www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News No Funerals for Suicide Victims Says Church

Perhaps in the eyes of some, murder(suicide) is grounds for an automatic excommunication, such as in the case of participating in an abortion.

Columcille

Dear Columcille,

You are right. There still are certain sins which only a bishop may absolve one of, at least in my Church that can be very, well, Particular!

Alex

Dear Friends:

Please let me offer for your consideration a story regarding an uncle of mine.

This man was a very attractive, charming, and talented individual, who owned a small store and bar in the Azores.

One of his great failings in life was that he had a weakness for the drink, as my mother told me he was almost always intoxicated.

All things considered, he managed to carry on a successful life, had five children, and was a religious person [he would pay for the candles to light the altars on Sunday].

Another thing my mother told me, was that even if he was drunk he would still get on his knees and pray before a statue of our Lord in his house.

As one would expect, the drink finally caught up to him and liver disease began to make him psychotic.

After a fit of delirium, he tried to harm himself [most people referred to it as a suicide] with a penknife. The wound was no larger than an inch or so and the knife was as small.

He was taken to hospital and the doctor told my aunt that the wound was of no concern, he could just sew it up, but that he was dying of liver disease and there was nothing he could do to help.

A group of family and friends, as well as his Godfather a priest, went to the hospital, which was located in another city, and brought him home.

All along the trip he incessantly sang church hymns, which physically and emotionally drained his companions.

He died at the age of 47, that same night, shortly after arriving at the house.

In the morning my cousin went to the village priest, told him what had happened, and that the family would like to arrange a funeral.

He answered that she was well aware the Church did not bury suicides. She had to explain to him what happened and told him that his Godfather was at her uncle's death.

The church did bury him, but the suicide element has remained to this day. We have met people who still refer to him as a suicide.

One day my cousin Joe, who was four when his father died, in conversation with my mother said, "we would have had an better life if my father had not killed himself".

My mother was livid and had to explain the complete circumstances of his father's death.

It seems that my aunt never talked to the younger children about their father's death.

My aunt never remarried, regarded the notion as insulting, and was in love with her husband till the day she died.

Suicide is never completely one sided.


defreitas

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: defreitas ]

Dear Jose,

As someone who has studied suicide, you are absolutely correct.

There is even a Jewish convert to Catholicism who is up for Beatification (I forget his name) who is now "Venerable" and who suffered from epilepsy and epileptic seizures that were so painful that he often tried to kill himself to make the pain go away.

He later resolved to keep his stay in kitchens, where there were knives, at a minimum, since if he had a seizure then and there, he'd be in trouble . . .

Christ Himself faced the demon of suicide in his Agony in the Garden.

And He prayed all the more, being in His painful, anguished state.

It is clear that we can never pass judgement on suicides.

At the same time, the temptation to suicide can and should be turned into an opportunity for Grace.

I was once like that. I was so upset by the hopelessness of my situation, not receiving any support from family and friends, that I found an evil solace in considering hanging myself.

I so convinced myself that God would forgive me etc.

And this was all part of the great delusion!

I came to understand that the temptation to suicide is allowed by God to make us throw ourselves even more completely on Him, to rely on Him alone to bring us out of the pit of despair.

I also learned that it was when I was so sure of my own "goodness" and "spiritual superiority" (I hope that doesn't come out in my posts here).

It was at those times when I was attacked by the evil one.

The only way to overcome it is by the total realization that we cannot save ourselves by our good works etc. We need to throw ourselves on God alone.

St Francis of Assisi did that when he was hopelessly tempted by a sexual temptation.

He threw himself naked on a thorn bush. And the thorns fell off.

The bush still grows to this day - but without thorns.

Alex

Dear Friends,

It seems to me that the Church is supposed to be in the business of saving souls, not condemning them. Also, in the business of comforting the survivors, not in ignoring their needs, nor in kicking the family around.

Thank you, DeFreitas, for your family story. I have another, about a family I knew in New Jersey, years ago.

The father had an incurable illness and killed himself. The Ukrainian Catholic priest refused to do a service for the family, so the widow went to the Irish priest at St. Vincent's and had a Latin Mass said (this was pre Vatican II) and a graveside service.

No one in that family ever returned to that Ukrainian parish. A few have returned to other Ukie parishes, but not until years later.

One child was lost into a cult, one became a nihilist/agnostic/atheist/whatever. The widow took almost 30 years to feel like she belonged in any parish (she tried quite a few). She finally found her way home to Jesus a few years ago.

Sometimes the Church does great damage by plastering layers of dogma over the peoples' lives.

I'm not a dog, I don't need dogma.

Sometimes I feel like going QUACKERS!

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

I haven't checked ByzCath in quite a while since I've been really distracted and am now on the road (Des Moines, Iowa). I just read the thread above.

What has struck me is the fact that to a person, everybody has been most concerned about the individual who commits suicide -- their pain, their mental state, their family relationships, etc. It seems to me that most posters here are tripping over one another to understand and to forgive.

It seems to me that the basic command of Christ to love one another is in high gear -- perhaps there is indeed hope for humanity with the witness of "love-of-God -- love-of-neighbor" being shown here. I hope that the Lord is really pleased at the kindness His servants are showing to those tortured souls who most need love, understanding and mercy.

Blessings!

Glory to Jesus Christ!

As has been stated, Orthodox canon law does indeed deny a church burial and memorial services to a suicide that was done by one who was NOT mentally ill. As a social worker, in an Emergency Room, I have found very few people who have attempted suicide who were not mentally ill , at least temporarily. I doubt that the family of suicide would be denied a mental illness certificate by their family physician due to this.

Sadly, I have seen many sucessful suicides that were calls for help by people in severe mental anguish or from boderline personality disorders seeking attention (both of these however could easily be given a psychiatric diagnosis under DSM IV, the manual descibing various psychiatric disorders and their levels of severity).

The only case that I can see, in which one may not qualify for the mentally ill category is one who seeks to punish someone else by murdering him/herself, this is sometimes done in the case of a jilted lover or a person seeking revenge upon another person--- in doing so they try to send the survivor a guilt message---the ultimate revenge. There are those that I have seen and in many cases they are not mentally ill but actually seeking to punish another for a percieved slight.

It is also important to note that if the suicide does not die immediately and has time to confess to the father-confessor and then dies,is buried as a non-suicide.

Spiritually, the issue seems to be an unconfessed murder of oneself that has been unrepented. To many this is what seperated the Apostle Judas Iscariot from St.Peter. Peter denied Christ but repented and asked forgiveness---forgiven he willing witnessed the divinity of his Lord and in the end gave up his life in martyrdom for Christ. Judas, in his self-willedness denied Christ, then recognizing his sin did not ask for forgiveness and took his own life in despair.

Many Orthodox Saints have indicated that family and friends of suicide should pray for the person and ask that God apply mercy to the sinner. May we always continue this act of Charity to those who have taken their own lifes, mentally ill or not. Better yet, may we look for bretheren who are sending those cries for help and help them before they let despair overtake them and lead them to suicide.

Your brother in Christ,
Thomas

[ 03-06-2002: Message edited by: Thomas ]

Amen, Brother Thomas. Aint' that just the Christ-like thing to do: go out and get 'em before they do harm to themselves. Sheesh, if we would just stop to take the time to attend to folks and to their needs, God's world would be a better place for all.

Blessings!

Dear Friends,
Christ is among us!
As a Parish priest, I have had to face the difficult problem of conducting the Funeral Service of a suicide a number of times. Even though I am a Byzantine Catholic priest, on a number of occassions I have been asked by Orthodox Christian families to conduct the Funerals of suicides when their Pastors have said no.
I accept their need to follow their Bishop's directive in this matter. I am pleased though that I can presume insanity and conduct a suitable service. I usually follow the understanding of such deaths in line with 2 Maccabees 12. I look towards the resurrection, pray for God's Divine Mercy, and offer sacrifice for the sins of the departed.
I hope that other Byzantine Catholic priests follow this understanding as well. I believe they do!

Thank you Fr. Vladimir for your words (and your praxis).

One aspect that has been not mentioned is the fact that the funeral service is not just for the deceased, but also for those of us left behind. No matter the sins of the departed, we -- the faithful -- need to know that our love for the departed person is not in vain, and that our prayers for him/her are not in vain. We need to be constantly reminded (and reinforced) in the belief that God loves all His children and will afford them every mercy, even if this mercy is the result of the prayers of the good and pious and faithful folks left behind.

The Lord is truly good and the lover of His human creations. Let us take the lesson and make it our own.

Mercy, Lord, upon us sinners. Thank you again, Reverend Father, for your goodness in taking the time to post.

Blessings to all!

Bless me a sinner, Father Vladimir!

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with us!

Another case where Orthodox asked for memorial services to an individual that was denied to him because he was excommunicated was that of Hetman Ivan Mazeppa, excommunicated by the Russian Church for his alliance with the Lutheran King Charles XII of Sweden against Peter the Great.

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

Dear Mor Ephrem,
So I thought! That people who committed suicide where mentally siturbed. But then I read a report from the US Air Force that seemed to indicate that a lot of people who did so were of sound mind.
Find this very confusing. Certainly we need to be sympathetic to them and their families.
Stephanos I

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: Stephanos I ]

As a prominent psychiatrist once noted: "Military medicine is to medicine as military music is to music." Air Force study? Fine. But compare it to others.

Since however we are not part of a military organization, but rather of a faith-family (dysfunctional as we sometimes are), we just have to remember that we aren't here to judge, but rather to love 'em all to the best of our abilities. (And, as my liturgics professor noted: the wake, the parastas, the funeral and the burial are there for the benefit of the survivors even though we use the opportunity to pray for the deceased. The set ritual of funerals allows the survivors to go through a series of "must do's" while they come to grips with the reality of the loss.)

How much more painful for the survivors when the person apparently took his/her own life. How much more must we comfort them when they feel that they have 'failed' the individual? And so, praying for the soul of the departed not only benefits the soul of the departed, but gives consolation to the survivors.

Think about the survivors and do whatever is necessary, in love, for their comfort.

Economia. Economia. Economia.

Christ is Risen!!

Dear Dr John,
Please read my post a little more closely.
I thought that is what I said.
Stephanos I