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Father Ambrose is totally correct. <laff> The post-Vatican II allowance for Catholics to attend an Orthodox Liturgy and thereby fulfil their Sunday obligation was rescinded.


The present situation is that if a Catholic is unable to attend a Catholic church he is despensed from the Sunday obligation, full stop. There could be an Orthodox Church on the corner of his block but since he is dispensed from the Sunday obligation he has no need to go there.

Irish Melkite -- help! Come and rescue me! :-)

Bless, Father,

I agree with my Irish-Serb-Russian-Kiwi friend (that would be you). While attendance at Divine Liturgy in an Orthodox temple would be laudable, it will not fulfill the Sunday 'obligation' of a Catholic. However, I would note the text of the CCEO cited by my Filipino brother which makes reference to the Particular Law of one's Church sui iuris (I'd quote, but it's on the prior page and I'm tired and lazy this morning).

Some, but not all, of the Particular Laws enacted by the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches specifically address the concept of 'obligation', defining its 'fulfillment' in various ways - including at least one that makes specific reference to attendance at Vespers on the prior evening, as I recollect (and to which Father Ambrose made reference earlier).

I'd agree with Father Ambrose that the subsequent publication effectively rescinded, by omission, the forward-thinking 1967 text (which represented a radical change from the pre-VII stance that - for all intents and purposes - pretty much suggested that one's soul was in jeopardy were one to enter Protestant or Orthodox churches, let alone be present at a service of any sort, including a Divine Liturgy). Heck, in those days, Rome looked askance at a Latin attending the Divine Liturgy in an Eastern or Oriental Catholic church.

Chaldean, as to your situation, I'd check with a priest, as was already suggested, unless you're attending an Assyrian temple - which is allowed under the Pastoral Agreement - and/or look to the Particular Law of your Church. I seem to remember that it may be available on-line, but don't remember one way or another as to whether that issue is addressed therein.

Many years,

Neil

Just to clarify, my disagreement with Fr. Ambrose is as follows:

Fr. Ambrose's original statement was:


I would argue that the "was permitted" was a very qualified permission. Even Ad Totam Ecclesiam mentions that this is to be done only "occasionally" and only for a variety of reasons, despite the broadness of those reasons. So, sticking to the letter of the document, Catholics were not permitted to fulfil the Sunday obligation by attending an Orthodox service every Sunday, for instance, as that would not be merely "occasional."

That having been said, I am perfectly aware of how "extraordinary" and "occasional" or "exceptional" have, in the Catholic Church, now assumed exactly the opposite meaning when it comes to practical application (with the exception of the "Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite"). Just think of the supposedly "exceptional" practice of Communion in the Hand and the supposedly "Extraordinary" use of lay ministers of Holy Communion. Hahahahaha.

Given that "occasional" was itself not defined, I can see how Ad Totam Ecclesiam could be interpreted, somewhat loosely, as enabling Catholics to satisfy their Sunday obligation by going to Orthodox churches, even when there are Catholic Masses / Divine Liturgies that are accessible.

In any case, I agree with Fr. Ambrose and Irish Melkite that this concession can be considered abolished.

Ah, the joys of reading post-Vatican II documents! Far too often we can make them say whatever we like them to say!

The answer given was wrong/

To elaborate on what Neil has mentioned, the particular law for the UGCC in the USA (usually referred to as the Pastoral Guide) allows Vespers, Matins or the Divine Liturgy to satisfy the "obligation". Note that this only applies to the UGCC in the USA, namely the clergy and faithful of the Archeparchy of Philadelphia and the Eparchies of Stamford, St. Josaphat in Parma, and St. Nicholas in Chicago.





I think also there are issues of applied jurisprudence involved with fulfilling the "obligation" at an Orthodox liturgy. I have yet for any canon lawyer to tell me that I would have to attend Mass again on any Sunday I attended an Orthodox liturgy for legitimate (educational) reasons, and I've asked upwards of a dozen across North America.

For Catholics to actually fulfill the maxims of Orientale Lumen, Paragraph 1: in a place with no Eastern Catholic churches would necessitate visiting an Orthodox church to satisfy the "first need". I don't think the Church intends an onerous guilt of obligation to be associated with fulfilling a Magisterial document.

I think we want cheerful volunteers in our ranks, not unwilling conscripts.

Actually, I did ask a Chaldean Catholic priest, not my Parish priest and he told me that I have to attend a Catholic Church to fullfill my obligation, I guess Saturday Vesper Mass or Sunday Mass. I do benefit spiritually from visiting Orthodox Church on Sunday, so I'm little torn. Do you think Jesus would mind me attending an Orthodox Church on Sunday if this helps me get closer to Him? Also, many people including priest are not familiar with the Orthodox Church, so that's why they are opposed to the idea of Catholic attending an Orthodox Church.

You can always go to the Saturday evening Mass to ensure that the 'obligation' is fulfilled .

That leaves the Sunday morning available for the Orthodox Liturgy.

Ah, yes--more "Seventh Day Adventist" Catholicism.

Thanks to the declaration of Communicatio in sacris between the Chaldean Catholic and Assyrian Church of the East, you may attend Qurbono in any Assyrian Church, and receive communion, without prejudice. Assyrian Christians, for their part, may do the same in the Chaldean Catholic Church.

But let us be clear--the very notion of "obligation", with its legalistic overtones, is rather alien to the spirit of Eastern Christian worship and spirituality.

Not me , I assure you.

I follow my SF's suggestions , which work for me.

Chaldean Catholic - do you have a Spiritual Father to whom you could talk about this ?

No one can ask for more. For myself, I find that the spiritual nourishment of Byzantine Christianity supersedes considerations of canonical communion, so Sunday away from a Greek Catholic parish will find me in an Orthodox parish, even if there is a Latin parish just across the street.

Hello,

Yeah, I have attend an Assyrian Church before that belongs to the Church of the East. Chaldeans are allowed to recieve communion there and vice versa.

Hello,

No, I don't have a spiritual Father.

I agree that finding a spiritual father is a great idea! Mine is a Monastic priest and I feel that is good idea when looking for a spiritual father but of course prayer will lead you to him. It may be a parish priest, married or celibate.

Also are there any Greek Catholic parishes around where you are? That way you can receive communion in a Byzantine Church and still get the nourishment of the Divine Liturgy celebrated in our rite.

In my home town we have many Chaldean Catholics and I have always wanted to go to a Liturgy there. Good luck and pray for me.