www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Archbishop Ranjith: Stole Over Chasuble!?

"In Asia, it is very common to wear the stole over the chasuble. Oftentimes, the stole alone follows the liturgical color of the season, the chasuble remaining white. At times, the alb is no longer worn, and the chasuble is out on top of street clothes. Thank God that at least Archbishop Ranjith is wearing a prelatial alb."

I hope you're not excusing the behavior!

I'm pretty shocked to see this from Abp. Ranjith. No, it's not the end of the world. But it's not desirable in the least.

Alexis

I have to add my voice to the "not anything to get worked up over" side. Unless it's done as an intentional act of disrespect, it seems to be just as StuartK said: the same kind of development that lead to our vestments in the first place. :shrug:

Peace and God bless!

Ditto.

Another thing not to be concerned about. This set-up was offered in a vestment catalogue some years back as something appropriate for travel, new missions (foreign or domestic), or other settings where a full set of vestments would be a burden--especially financially. In case anyone hasn't looked lately, vestments aren't cheap by any means. So this type of thing can't be all that bad.

BOB

I don't know, Ghosty and Stuart. I do see your point, in that vestments are of course not static. But when the Church has officially laid down the parameters of what is acceptable to do with vestments and what isn't, I tend to think those should be followed. Development of vestments should, and has, occurred within the parameters of what the Church's guidelines are.

Often when the guidelines and spirit aren't respected, the vestments begin to lose the beautiful meanings they've acquired over the centuries. That's why one nineteenth-century Pope, I forget which one (a Pius?), laid out exactly the measurements of how little a chasuble could be, because the trend at the time was to cut the chasuble down shorter and shorter (going from "Gothic" to "Baroque/Roman fiddleback" style). The Pope jumped in to save the chasuble from being entirely demolished, it seems to me, after acceptable development almost went too far.

When ecclesiastical vestments were first employed, there was little rhyme or reason as to what should be worn, over what, when, etc. In the course of the natural developments, things became more and more fixed, though there is still always room for development. So just because one approach was taken in the eight century doesn't necessarily mean it's kosher today.

Just my opinion.

Alexis

My experience with bishops--Orthodox and Catholic, Latin, Byzantine, Chaldean, Maronite, Coptic and Syrian--is they wear what they want and do what they want, when they are celebrating at their own altar. They are the liturgiarchs of their diocese, and can pretty much have their own way.

Putting a colored stole on a white chasuble is also very ugly, especially when the chasuble is on top of street clothes. Try it.

If only it were limited to really poor missions and parishes...

Problem is, the practice has spread even to very wealthy parishes and cathedrals, including the very well-funded Manila Cathedral. In addition to the fact that the Philippine Church is quite well off, beautiful and relatively inexpensive vestments are very common in the Philippines and Asia: I should know because my office is in the middle of my country's largest center for religious merchandise (Tayuman, Manila).

Going back to the first picture - posted by Latin Catholic , something has just struck me.

The Stole we can see being worn by the new Archbishop is very ornate - more in line with what is known over here as a Concelebration Stole - normally worn over the Alb , when there are insufficient Chasubles for all the priests present.

Of course there are also pictures of the Pope wearing such elaborate Stoles too.

No matter what - I still don't like it - and it has been described to me as 'sloppy'

But not on top of the chasuble.

Agreed

Christ is in our midst!!

Can we begin to get over this? We've got people who don't believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. We've got people who don't go to Liturgy over the course of a whole year except at Christmas and Easter. We've got Clown Masses and people showing up in drag calling themselves one thing or another. We've got all sort so irreverence in church and two generations that have no concept of reverence or how to act toward our Creator. We have lots of people who are still in the "gotta go to Mass to fulfill my obligation" mentality. We've got a world that marginalizes Christians every Christmas and most of the rest of the year as well.

And we're worried about an Archbishop whose secretary got his vestments on him in the wrong way?

BOB

Not meaning in any way to insult those who are enjoying this conversation, but Bob makes a good, albeit, sad, point....

So maybe these gentlement just don't know how to dress?!? In the scheme of things...not such a big deal!

Alice

No amice either from the looks of things. I wonder if they had liturgical dancing that day.

Dear Bob and Alice,

you both make valid points, and I agree there is no need to exaggerate the importance of this. However, the archbishop in question is not just anyone, but until recently the secretary of the Congregation for Divine Worship, meaning that for the past four years he has been one of the key people in the Vatican with regard to all matters liturgical, at a time when the pope has been promoting his "Benedictine reform of the reform". Yet, as soon as he gets home to Sri Lanka, instead of setting a good example the archbishop just goes with the local flow... No big deal, maybe, but still a bit disappointing. And if we want dignified and reverent liturgies so that people can learn to believe in and show reverence for the sacred mysteries, then the sacred ministers need to be faithful to the liturgy and the liturgical laws of the church, even in such little matters as this: "He that is faithful in that which is least, is faithful also in that which is greater: and he that is unjust in that which is little, is unjust also in that which is greater."

That said, I believe Archbishop Malcolm Ranjith deserves and needs our prayers now that he is taking on the heavy office of metropolitan of Sri Lanka just as the country is emerging from thirty years of vicious civil war. Let us pray especially the metropolitan and the Church in Sri Lanka can help bring about reconciliation between the former warring parties.

What next? Are we going to start kvetching about Byzantine priests who fasten their cuffs with velcro?