www.byzcath.org Forums General Discussions Town Hall Italy school crucifixes 'barred'

Italy school crucifixes 'barred'


Catholicism stopped being the state religion in Italy in 1984
The European Court of Human Rights has ruled against the use of crucifixes in classrooms in Italy.

It said the practice violated the right of parents to educate their children as they saw fit, and ran counter to the child's right to freedom of religion.

The case was brought by an Italian mother, Soile Lautsi, who wants to give her children a secular education.

The Vatican said it was shocked by the ruling, calling it "wrong and myopic" to exclude the crucifix from education.

The ruling has sparked anger in the largely Catholic country, with one politician calling the move "shameful".

The Strasbourg court found that: "The compulsory display of a symbol of a given confession in premises used by the public authorities... restricted the right of parents to educate their children in conformity with their convictions."

It also restricted the "right of children to believe or not to believe", the seven judges ruling on the case said in a statement quoted by AFP news agency.

European identity

Mrs Lautsi complained to the European court that her children had to attend a public school in northern Italy that had crucifixes in every room.

She was awarded 5,000 euros ($7,400; �4,500) in damages.

Vatican spokesman the Rev Federico Lombardi said the European court had no right intervening in such a profoundly Italian matter, the Associated Press reported.

"It seems as if the court wanted to ignore the role of Christianity in forming Europe's identity, which was and remains essential."

He told Italian TV: "The crucifix has always been a sign of God's love, unity and hospitality to all humanity.

"It is unpleasant that it is considered a sign of division, exclusion or a restriction of freedom."

'Italian tradition'

Many politicians in Italy have reacted angrily.

Education Minister Mariastella Gelmini said the crucifix was a "symbol of our tradition", and not a mark of Catholicism.

One government minister called the ruling "shameful", while another said that Europe was forgetting its Christian heritage.

The government says it will appeal against the decision.

The BBC's Duncan Kennedy in Rome says that it is customary in Italy to see crucifixes in public buildings, including schools, despite the constitution saying that there should be a separation of church and state.

The law requiring crucifixes to be hung in schools dates back to the 1920s.

Although a revised accord between the Vatican and the Italian government ended Catholicism's position as the state religion in 1984, the crucifix law has never been repealed.

Some conservatives have already complained about schools dropping nativity plays to avoid upsetting Muslim children.

www.bbcnews.com [bbcnews.com]

Wow. Disturbing.

I knew the name of the woman in question didn't sound Italian, and sure enough upon Googling her, it appears she is Finnish!

Finland is one of the most areligious countries in the world (Top 4 I think?), and I find it particularly upsetting that a non-Italian from a de-Christianized country can singlehandedly succeed in "spitting on" the history of Italy. It really makes my blood boil.

And the fact that the European Court of Human Rights has such expansive power is a frightening thing, too. It should be using it's far-reaching influence, if it so insists on doing, to curb the Islamic fanaticism in France and other European nations.

Being part Italian (well...Sicilian!), and having at least a general idea of the "ethos" of that country, I can tell you that Italians are a proud grouping of people and this will probably be seen by the average Italian as a personal affront to his cultural tradition.

Lastly, I feel especially sad for our blessed Holy Father, who has as one of his main goals the salvaging of a general European Christian identity.

Regardless of whether the ruling is correct in the abstract, the whole thing, from the pitiful woman who brought the charges, to the Court which handed down the law, is an utter shame from top to bottom.

Alexis

I am completely in agreement with your words and sentiments, dear friend.

Alice

Who says Sicilians are "Italian"? We are Siciliano, paisan, and won't have anything to do with those Napolitani and snooty Romani, let alone the Milanese and Bolognese (we might give a nod in the direction of the Calabrese, out of respect for their viciousness). As for outsiders imposing their will upon us, let them remember the outcome of the Sicilian Vespers.

I am reminded of Bl. Restituta Kafka, the Viennese nun and nurse who was beheaded by the Nazis in 1943 for having, among other things, defied orders not to hang crucifixes in the rooms of a newly-built wing of the hospital where she worked. Pope JP2 beatified her as a martyr in 1998.

A question I have is how their vote will be enforced. Without enforcement measures it will be a condemnation. If the appeal is rejected will Italian school face consequences for baulking this "ruling"?

Terry

Stuart,

I know, I know! But Sicilians enjoy holding grudges so much that I'd assume that, in this particular situation, they might accept being referred to as Italian, just for this case!

Alexis

So, somewhere down the line, we settle all family business with the EU, right?

The EU Court of Human Rights has enforcement powers through the European Commission, which can impose economic sanctions on Italy for non-compliance. This can take the form of withholding grants and subsidies, to imposing an additional levy on the Italian contribution to the EU.

Since the Commission is not answerable to anyone, you can see how the anti-democratic aspects of the EU can have a corrosive effect not only on national identity, but on the very human rights it is supposed to uphold.

If people think a cross on the wall will do that, instead of a cross in their hearts, they're buying fools gold. Displays like this don't belong in public institutions in a pluralist society, and I am no fan of political correctness. The mother in this case is absolutely right, though I probably would not agree with much of the rest of her worldview.

Easy solution. Defund public education and send the kids to Catholic school. Let the secular humanists pay for their own schools, and then they can put anything they want on the walls.

But if it is a part of the cultural identity of the country as a whole it certainly has a place in the classroom.

When you think that the so-called "Human Rights" were invented in France precisely to get rid of religion from public space, it makes perfect sense.


That's why they won't allow that on mass scale in Europe. What's more, that a school is Catholic it doesn't necessarily mean that the principles of secularism may not be enforced on it - however strange it may sound. There was a precedent a few months ago. EU is more than godless in principles, it is antitheist.

Edit: I can't find the exact news now, but I think it had something to do with the Equality Act in the UK, or the Catholic Education Service's (presided by bishop Vincent Nicholas) document advocating creation of "prayer rooms" for non-catholics and adapting toilets for ritual Muslim ablutions - both in Catholic schools.

There is no easy solution, because you would have to build an entire infrastructure to oversee private schools. Your taxes would also more than likely be used to fund vouchers for schools that promote things you dislike even more than what is taught in public schools.

The worst part of all of this is you'll probably have some reactionary politicians coming out on the issue.

Suggesting what needs to be done is easy.