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This is a report on how John Paul II would flagellate himself, especially before ordaining new bishops and priests. How do Byzantines view flagellation. How is it distinguished, if at all, from other penitential and ascetic practices, such as fasting or abstaining? I have never flogged myself (or worn a hair shirt), but of course I have undertaken other bodily punishments for the sake of penance that are much more routine (such as kneeling for a long period of time even when it hurts - which I think I mentioned in another post to Stuart, that kneeling for more than a few minutes hurts my back quite a bit). Pope John Paul 'would whip himself before he ordained priests'
By Nick Pisa
Last updated at 1:18 AM on 24th November 2009
Pope John Paul II regularly whipped himself in a sign of 'remorse for his sins,' Polish nun Tobiana Sobodka has revealed
Pope John Paul II regularly whipped himself in 'remorse for his sins', a nun has revealed.
Pope John Paul, who died in 2005, is being considered for sainthood by the Catholic Church - the ultimate accolade and a tribute to his holiness.
As part of the Vatican's investigation, thousands of documents have been collected and examined by officials from the Congregation for the Causes of Saints.
Among them is the testimony of Polish nun Tobiana Sobodka, of the Sacred Heart of Jesus order, who worked for Pope John Paul in his private Vatican apartments and at his summer residence in Castel Gandolfo near Rome.
Sister Sobodka said: 'Several times he (Pope John Paul) would put himself through bodily penance.
'We would hear it - we were in the next room at Castel Gandolfo. You could hear the sound of the blows when he flagellated himself. He did it when he was still capable of moving on his own.'
The flagellation is also confirmed by another bishop who has given testimony, Emery Kabongo, who for several years was a secretary for Pope John Paul.
He said: 'He would punish himself and in particular just before he ordained bishops and priests. Before passing on the sacraments he wanted to prepare himself.
'I never actually saw it myself but several people told me about it.'
Sister Sobodka's leaked statements were published in Italian newspaper La Stampa and are part of new book on Pope John Paul II by its Vatican correspondent.
Self-flagellation is sometimes used by devoted Catholics as it reminds them of the whipping endured by Christ at the hands of the Romans before he was crucified.
It is still common in the Philippines and Latin America, some members of strict monastic orders and some members of the lay organisation Opus Dei - who feature in the Dan Brown blockbuster The Da Vinci Code.
In the film - which was condemned by the Vatican - murderous Albino monk Silas, who is a member of Opus Dei, is seen in a brutal scene whipping his back and drawing blood as he prays on his knees.
A Vatican spokesman said: 'The investigation and documentation is still secret and as such we can make no comment on it until the final report is published.
'I know that the nun in question has returned to Poland and she would have spoken with the Congregation as she was with an order that worked in the apartments of Pope John Paul.'
The Congregation for the Causes of Saints has been investigating the case for Pope John Paul since he died and has approved the late pope's 'heroic virtues' and the paperwork has been sent to his German successor.
The late Polish pope's beatification is expected to take place sometime next year, perhaps in April, to coincide with the fifth anniversary of his death or in October to coincide with his election in 1978.
Beatification is the first step in becoming a saint and, in order to be granted, evidence of a miracle performed by praying to the candidate in question has to be proved and verified by the Vatican.
In the case of Popes, the procedure is usually much longer because the Vatican must examine much more material given the mass of responsibility and decisions taken by them as leaders of the Catholic Church.
However, Pope Benedict XVI has put John Paul II's beatification cause on a fast track, waiving a rule requiring a five-year wait before the start of the process.
Following his death in 2005 the vast crowd that gathered in St Peter's Square carried banners bearing the slogan 'Santo Subito' (Saint Immediately).
New reports of miracles attributed to John Paul II's heavenly intervention are said to arrive in Rome every week.
The key one being examined at the moment is the case of French nun Sister Marie-Simon Pierre, 47, said to have been cured from Parkinson's Disease - the same illness suffered by Pope John Paul II - after praying to him. Alexis
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WOW!! I am sure that if he were alive, John-Paul II, Pope of blessed memory, would be upset to know that such a private practice of humility was known. In any case, getting back to your question...self punishment, though not specifically classified as such, (just like everything else in Orthodoxy *wink*) is practiced by monastics like the ascetes who eat nothing, or monastics who sleep on concrete floors... Then ofcourse there are also the devout laity who beseech the Blessed Virgin Mother and other saints by walking the long path to the church on their knees (on the island of Tinos for the Virgin Mary, on the island of Kefalonia for St. Gerasimos (if you remember the movie 'Corelli's Mandolin', this was their patron saint's feastday which was depicted), etc... These acts of physical pain are done in order for their intentions and prayers to be heard... Though not spoken of explicitly, one can only deduce that to inflict such bodily pain and discomfort is to offer a sacrifice of sorts in rememberance of the great sacrifice of pain and discomfort which Christ suffered for us, and which the saints endured for the sake of Christ. Another form of Orthodox penance is standing through a loooong Orthodox service on a cold marble floor!!! Regards, Alice  P.S. I have never flogged myself (or worn a hair shirt), ...regarding the wearing of a 'hair shirt'...I am not sure what store would carry such a garment!! *wink*
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Such things are known in Orthodoxy, but only EVER with the permission of one's spiritual father.
Alice is also correct, the only places I mention such things is to to my spiritual father or in the confessional.
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And sorry, to answer some of your specific questions:
a) IF one takes the fact it is not mentioned much in hagiography in the East as a guide, it is not that common. There are other things in the East that are very common that are not so common in the west however. For example, many Orthodox monastics do not wash themselves or their clothes, ever. My understanding is that flagellation is fairly post-schism practice; I can't think of a pre-schism saint who is noted for it. Early Western saints imitated the east in their asceticism.
b) I doubt if it did take place flagellation would be viewed very differerntly from other ascetic practices; if one's spiritual father thinks they are beneficial they are ok.
c) I would distinguish wearing the hair shirt from flagellation. One can buy them from opus dei, if one wants one. In the East all monastics used to wear a "hair tunic" as their undergarment. These days not so much it seems. Though Elder Daniel of mount Athos noted that after a few months of not washing his undergarments, his undershirt became laden with sweat and grime and was a real penance. Saint Herman of Alaska is also described as having rubbed his shirt of coarse deer skin to rags by wearing it all the time.
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One of my favorite saints, the Lower Bavarian Capuchin friar St. Konrad of Parzham (1818-1894) was the porter at the monastery of the pilgrimage town of Altoetting. He was known for his humility, simplicity, patience and obedience (virtues, which alas! I have yet failed to interiorize). Anyway he was very circumspect with women but he had a couple of ladies with whom he shared what could be termed devotional friendships. One of these women once asked him for an instrument of penance, to which he replied, "Go on home, child - you've already got enough crosses to bear there."
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One of my favorite saints, the Lower Bavarian Capuchin friar St. Konrad of Parzham (1818-1894) was the porter at the monastery of the pilgrimage town of Altoetting. He was known for his humility, simplicity, patience and obedience (virtues, which alas! I have yet failed to interiorize). Anyway he was very circumspect with women but he had a couple of ladies with whom he shared what could be termed devotional friendships. One of these women once asked him for an instrument of penance, to which he replied, "Go on home, child - you've already got enough crosses to bear there." That was brilliant.
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Blessed Theresa of Calcutta had a variation of her own - wherever she went she cleaned the toilets, as an act of humility. She didn't talk about it; she just did it.
Fr. Serge
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