www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Altar Girls in UGCC

I guess the Ukrainian Catholic Church really wants to mimic the Roman Catholic Novus Ordo Church.

Female Altar Servers at
SAINTS PETER&PAUL

UKRAINIAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

404 – 6TH STREET, AMBRIDGE, PA

Check out their bulletin and look at the names of the Altar Servers.
From July 18, 2010

http://www.sspeter-paul.org/Bulletin.htm

ALTAR SERVER SCHEDULE:

Sat., July 24, - 6 P.M. – Allison & Nicole .../Adalyn .../Taiyah ...

Sun., July 25, - 8 A.M. – Jenn & Joseph ...

11 A.M. – Mark & Holly .../Steven .../Sam ....

Never knew guys called Allison, Jenn, or Holly.
I thought Byzantine Catholic Churches were strictly Altar Boys.
Like the Orthodox Churches. Remember no women behind the iconostasis.

Here is another UGCC with Altar Girls

http://picasaweb.google.com/stjohnsmckeesport/FirstHolyConfession#5459394361602313666

http://picasaweb.google.com/stjohnsmckeesport/FirstHolyConfession#5459394676893380274

Looks like an altar girl to me.

Saint John the Baptist UGCC
1907 Eden Park Boulevard
McKeesport, Pennsylvania 15132

Good read.

http://www.antiochian.org/1242

Correction: while there are a small minimum of parishes who would probably start using Saltines and Coca-Cola for the Eucharist if the Latins gave such an example (they do not, and thank God) most of us do nothing of the sort.

Fr Serge

Then do me a huge favor Fr Serge. Write these pastors a letter and tell them they are wrong in having female altar servers. And that they will be reported if they continue violating the rubrics with liturgical abuses.

To quote bkovacs: "Remember no women behind the iconostasis".
Is that so? Well, we've seen many exceptions - cleaning the sanctuary, replacing altar linens, placing flowers, putting up Christmas decorations, etc. In other words, women can go behind the iconastasis to work, but not to worship.
Something ain't right here.
Girls and women should be altar servers!

Yoy!
Re: antiochan.org
What a terrible insult to women!

is the prohibition a matter of doctrinal theology or a matter of a church practice in tradition that is changeable?
Is there a specific canon forbidding this?
How is divine worship changed with the addition of girls as altar servers?

The particular law of the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Metropolitan Church of Pittsburgh Sui Iuris expressly forbids women serving in the Altar. This particular law was approved by the Congregation for Eastern Churches.

Dn. Robert

I must also clarify that the UGCC is not subject to our (Pittsburgh Metropolia) particular law. As to the traditional discipline as to who goes into the Altar area, it is basically restricted to the ordained, i.e., those who have a reason to be there; bishops, priests, deacons, and subdeacons. The admisson of young male altar servers into the altar was a concession due to the lack of subdeacons in most places (Note: these are all male roles-of course this may also open up discussion of the historical role of female deacons in the Church of Constantinople-so be it). The young male altar servers take the role of subdeacon. In Eastern Orthodoxy, sometimes the notion of "economia" kicks in. I was at a talk given by an Orthodox nun at St. Tikhon of Zadonsk Seminary in South Canaan, Pa. She indicated that at her monastery, since males are not allowed there except for clergy celebrating services, they will usually appoint a nun to serve in the Altar.

Dn Robert

I think female altar servers are more common in the UGCC than one might think. I cannot find them at this moment, but on one of the Eparchial or Parish websites I saw a picture of a bishop with adolescent girls and boys vested as subdeacons. I'll try to find the link to the pictures.

Deacon Robert,

Thanks for the info. Just a quick question.

Do sub-deacons receive the sacrament of holy orders? I don't think that they do, as they are a minor order.

I have no problems accepting that if a law/canon prohibits women in the worship area, that's all I need to know. Obviously, a law is changeable, but I respect the ruling of the Church.

I would like to make a few comments about the link to the website of the Antiochian Archdiocese. The article is faulty in several places.

Regardless of what one's opinion is about the suitability of women as "servers" in the altar, the article mentions some incorrect reasoning that should be understood better.

(1) The first commentator (in the article) mentions diverse activities for men and women in the life of the church. One activity in particular needs clarification. The writer emphasizes chanters and choirs and wonders what church singing would be like without the participation of women.

. . . stop. It has to be remembered that chanters/cantors were and still officially are an ordained (through admission to minor orders and tonsure) ministry of the church. The fact that women serve in these roles today, more or less without question, reveals that the majority of people have become accustomed to something that was originally a "concession" because of need. A "traditional discipline" of the church is violated without hardly any notice.

Choirs too were and are seen as an official liturgical role. They were often reserved to men until the last century. In the Roman Catholic Church, on November 23, 1903, Pius X issued a papal directive, that banned women from singing in church choirs, on the ground that women were not permitted to fulfil any "liturgical function" (Motu proprio ‘Tra le Sollecitudini’, 1903). Allegedly this applied only to "mixed choirs" but it did cause Roman Catholic churches, to have only male singers until the law was apparently relaxed in 1955 by Pius XII with the Encyclical "Musicae Sacre".

The Antiochian writers' comparison of the role of women in choirs and as chanters bears no weight. The further suggestion of "what would the church be like without laidies' organizations and women Sunday school teachers is just plain insulting.

The second commentator makes a grave and probably naive mistake by mentioning that, while both men and women attend the seminary, men do so to be ordained priests and celebrate the liturgy in the altar and women study to become nuns. This is absurd. It is well known that both men and women are students of theology in Orthodox, Catholic and most other schools of theology and seminaries.

So, a simple observation that, without focusing on one's personal opinion as to the presence of women in the altar, the Antiochian Archdiocese would do well to find a better example of its opinion which forbids the practice.

Best, Fr. Joe

No. It is a minor order, but we still use the term "ordained" to refer to them. Minor orders are also restricted to males.

Dn. Robert

Ah, Father Joe. While it is true that cantor is a minor order of the Church, conferred by cheirothesia, it is also true that there were female choirs in Constantinople in the time of John Chrysostom, indicating that this was not a matter of oikonomia, but of policy. Argue it out with the Golden Tongue, if you like. Regarding the state of liturgical music in the Latin Church ca. 1903, I don't think Pius X was in any position to talk one way or the other, because, frankly, there were problems far worse than the presence of female or mixed choirs. Since the Sistine Choir continued to sing composed Masses by the great composers during the reign of Pope Pius X, and since these in fact required female voices, a practice what you preach rebuke is required here. Besides, go back a century or so from the time of Pius X and find papal choirs chock full of castrati. In any case, the discipline of the Latin Church has nothing to do with us.

Now, if you ask me, the Ruthenian Church should restore the minor orders of Reader and Cantor, ordaining its members by cheirothesia as intended. However, Reader is seen as a purely transitional order (as, in reality is that of Subdeacon), and that of Cantor does not exist. My inquiries as to why resulted in the usual rambling, incoherent sort of explanation to which one becomes accustomed when dealing with matters Ruthenian, but it boiled down to this: if Readers and Cantors were ordained, the women who are fulfilling those functions in our parishes would have their feelings hurt. Nice to know our bishops are so solicitous of the fairer sex.

On a more practical matter, I am self-employed, and this allowed me to attend daily liturgy more often than most people. My experience was most of the laity present were older women, and most of the time, an older woman led the singing and took the Epistle. This makes perfect sense: women are more inclined than men to attend daily liturgy, and older women have the time and inclination to sing and read.

An acquaintance in my parish once complained that women should not be doing the readings or leading the singing, and I thought the pastor had the most perfect put-down for him: "So, you're volunteering to read and cantor at the next liturgy, then?" That was the last time he broached the subject.