This is fantastic! Did the ministry of deaconess ever fall into disuse in the Armenian Church (say under Latin influence)? To see such a vibrant tradition makes me think that it must have continued to exist at least in some places.
It is customary in the Melkite usage for an acolyte to cense the celebrant after the Great Incensation. I assume this also covers the Antiochean and Greek Orthodox. Apparently it is only in the Slavic usage that incensation is limited to the major orders.
Thanks. Interestingly, in the Coptic tradition even deacons (by which I mean actual deacons, not the acolytes that the copts call deacons) cannot cense, only priests and bishops; in fact, there is a rubrical passage which says that the deacon must "carefully carry the censer not swinging it"!
At the Coptic church in Fairfax, at least during Vespers, the deacon does not use a hanging kadilo, but a hand-held table censer. I do not know if this is general practice, or limited to this parish, and whether it is customary, or just something that has evolved by accident--for instance, not having a hanging censer to swing.
Ah that is different; censing with the hand censer is not counted as censing per se, which is one sees women (nuns - and deaconesses with the copts) and laymen do it in the Coptic and Russian traditions).
So I've done some more reading, which has cleared up the four minor orders. I still don't understand the subdeacon aspect of Armenian orders however; and I understand even less something called a stole-bearer, who seems to be like our Russian readers who are blessed to wear a stole.
The thing is, I look in Attwater, and the subdeacon appears to wear a maniple. Is this a Latinism? How do Armenian orthodox stole-bearers and subdeacons wear stoles?
Off-topic, and my apologies, but I want to welcome Francisco back - it's been way too long since we've seen a post by you, my friend. The minute that I saw a thread title in all uppercase letters, I suspected it was you . My prayers that you're well, my brother.
Many years,
Neil
PS - I was thinking about you just the other day, because of the photos you once posted of Constantinople. I'll be sending you a PM because I suspect you might know the answer to a question that I have.
Last edited by Irish Melkite; 02/02/1208:46 AM. Reason: add postscript
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
The minor orders in the Syriac and Armenian Churches appear to be similar. Here is a link to the Syriac practice. In the link, choose "worship" and then "vestments." Scroll to the bottom to find the minor orders and deacons.
As far as Latin customs go, remember that the Armenians adopted some Latin customs during the period of the Crusades: the bishop's miter, for example. We have a member here who is Armenian and perhaps he will come by to give us an insider's understanding.
Dear Irish Melkite, I thank you so much for your warm words. Tank you very much, as well, for joining me in prayer as I asked you all, my dear brothers and sisters in Christ of the Byzantine forum, in my last summer post. Thanks to the Lord I and the rest of the members of my family are really well. Fortunatelly, as prophet Jeremiah says, "the harvest is finished, and the summer", my particular aestas horribilis, "is gone," and we all are, till the moment, safe and sound. Unfortunately bad times have not finish for so many of our brothers in the hospitals all around the world and for those around them, my thought and my prayers are with them in this moment. Sorry for the strong personal and enigmatic character of this post that has nothing to do with the armenian deaconesses. Waiting for your PM. Yours in Christ, Francisco
There are three major orders in the ranks of the clergy of the Armenian Church; deacon, priest and bishop. Within each of these orders there are ranks or subdivisions. There are also four minor orders of Tbir or Clerk
Deacon Under the order of deacon we find first the stole bearer (Ourarageer). He is not ordained but given the stole to use while serving in the Church. The stole bearer may serve at the altar, read the litanies and sing. When there is no deacon available he may also read the Gospelsbook. Second, there is the rank of sub-deacon (Geesasargavak) which is conferred by ordination and is a specific rank in the church. Finally, there is the deacon, sometimes called archdeacon (Sargavak), the last rank before priesthood. Only the deacon has the right to present the chalice. We address stole bearers, sub-deacons and deacons as Deeratzou.
Priest The next order in the church is priest. In the Armenian Church there are two types: the married priest (Kahana) and the celibate priest (Gousagron Kahana). Priests have the right to perform all services and sacraments except ordination. Married priests are usually pastors of parishes and serve the parochial needs. The celibate priesthood has a number of divisions. The first rank of celibate priest is Apegha, which means monk. The celibate then usually receives the rank of Vartabed or doctor of the church. There are fourteen levels of celibate priesthood, the last being Dzayrakouyn. We address married priests as Der Hayr and celibate priests as Hayr Sourp.
Bishop The third order is that of bishop. The bishop has the right to perform all the services and sacraments including ordination. Under the heading of bishop fall primates and patriarchs. (Unmarried priests may also serve as primates.) The primate is the spiritual leader of a diocese l see. We have many diocese but only two patriarchates, Jerusalem and Constantinople. We address biand a patriarch usually presides over a historicashops as Srpazan Hayr.
Catholicos Although not technically a separate “ordained” ministry, the highest order in the Armenian Church is Catholicos, the bishop of bishops and Supreme Patriarch and Catholic of of All Armenians. He resides in Holy Etchmiadzin, the Mother See of the Armenian Church. Throughout history we have had more than one Catholicate, but they only exercised local jurisdiction. Of these only the Catholicate of Cilicia. whose center is now in Antelias, Lebanon, has survived. The Catholicos has the special right to consecrate bishops and prepare the Holy Oil (Meuron). We address the Catholicos as Vehapar Der.
So, if I am not wrong, both "stole bearer" (Ourarageer) and "deaocons" (Sargavak) can use "ourar" during the Liturgy (Patarak)and read the Gospel, but only "deacons" (Sargavak) and "deaconesses" (as you can see in one of the pictures) have the right to present the chalice.
One who receives these four minor ranks is known as a Tbir (or clerk). Through the minor orders, the Tbir is conferred special privileges which are the foundation of his service to the church as a participant during the worship services. There are four distinct functions of a Tbir:
In receiving these ranks, one becomes an Acolyte (Pokhasats).
The requirements for ordination to the sub-Diaconate are extensive. The candidate should already have received the minor orders before receiving the rank of sub-Deacon. There are some responsibilities that a sub-Deacon may share with a full deacon; however there are limitations to his responsibilities and authority because this office does not reflect the fullness of one who has become a deacon. The sub-Diaconate is a transitional rank between Tbir and full Deacon in which a young man is preparing himself for fuller service to the church.
So, if I am not wrong, we have the Acolyte (Pokhasats), someone who has received the four minor orders (that of the Latin Church, more or less), and is already considered a member of the clergy(Tbir o Dbir), we also have the honorary stole bearer (Ourarageer), the subdeacon (Geesasargavak)and the deacon or archdeacon(Sargavak).
He is not wearing a maniple. He has taken off his ourar (orarion) and is holding it over his arm. The maniple has never been used in the Armenian ritual. The bishops and priests wear cuffs similar to the other oriental rites.
THankyou Francisco and Thymiato - so the ourageer, subdeacon and deacon all wear the stole in exactly the same way (straight down over the left shoulder)?
Ordination of 31 New Deacons in the Mother See of Holy Etchmiadzin
Ordination of 30 deacons took place in the Mother See of Holy Etchmiadzin
ՍԱՐԿԱՒԱԳԱՑ ՁԵՌՆԱԴՐՈՒԹԻՒՆ - Deacon Ordination - September 25, 2011
My Deacon Ordination
Mother See of Holy Etchmiazin - Deacon Ordination - July 17, 2005
We can agree to disagree but for me its quite clear that the candidates to the diaconate (subdeacons) during both the election and the ordination ceremony are wearing something (a vestment) quite similar to the maniple (ourar used as if it would be a maniple). Do not forget that during the ordination of deacons in the Greek byzantine tradition the "zoni" of the subdeacon becomes his first "orarion" as newly ordained deacon. In the same way the "orarion" becomes "epitrachilion" as the deacons becomes priest (one vestment two names).
St. Mary Armenian Apostolic Church 45 Hallcrown Place Toronto, ON, M2J 4Y4 Canada 2011-05-29 (Acolytes) Subdeacons and Deacons Ordination http://www.stmarytoronto.com/index_...eacons%20Ordination/arm_article_long.php Please notice how ourar in form of maniple is given to the newly ordained subdeacons and how subdeacons candidates to the diaconate wear the ourar in the same way at the begining of the ordination service:
Francisco, they are holding their ourars over their arms before the Bishop vests them at the end of the ordination rite. We do not have, nor have we ever had maniples in the Armenian Rite, as I noted above. Please do not read Latin customs into a rite where they do not actually exist.
Dear Thymiato (censer in modern Greek if i am not wrong):
The Latinisation of the Armenian rite is a well known phaenomenon studied by scholars and recognized by the Armenian Church. At the site of the Mother See of Holy Etchmiadzin talking about the history of the Armenian you can read about Kavazan Hovagan (Pastoral Staff or Pedum):
"During the Latin Council of Antioch, in 1141/2, to which the Armenian Catholicos Gregory III was also invited, theological and ritual differences between the Armenian and Latin Churches were discussed. Returning to Rome the Pope’s envoy, praised the Armenian Catholicos and his brother Nerses Shnorhali to Pope Innocent II.The Pope of Rome wrote a letter to the Armenian Catholicos, in which he recognized the Orthodoxy of the Armenian Church and for the complete unification of the two Churches suggested that the Armenians should mix water in the Chalice and celebrate Christmas on the 25th of December. Innocent II also presented the Armenian Catholicos with an Episcopal staff, which began to be used by bishops. The eastern Greek-Cappadocian staff was used by archimandrites only".
Please do not misunderstand me. I do not take offense at what is posted here. I am merely trying to present an accurate interpretation of what is seen in the photographs.
I mentioned the fact that our priests use cuffs in my post above. I only take issue with the identification of an unused, folded orarion as a maniple, which it manifestly is not. My good friend was ordained a subdeacon last summer and was invested with the stole over his shoulder, not his forearm.
Photographs and websites only give a hint of what our Liturgy is like. Studying these images alone one would conclude that our church was wholly Latin in orientation, rather than based in the Syriac and Jerusalem Traditions, as is actually the case.
I invite you to visit one of our communities someday to experience our traditions and to enjoy our hospitality.
There is no Armenian Church in the place where I live in this moment, in fact there is but one single Armenian Church in the country where I am living now, but during the seven years I spent in Greece I used to attend different liturgical services in the local Armenian Church (Սուրբ Աստուածածին Եկեղեցի), where I always felt at home althought at the very begining I just could understand few words, such as "Օրթի" and "Պռօսխումէ" that fortunately were just Greek to me. May I ask you why Thymiato (apparently in Greek) for username?
I use the Greek version for my username as I did not have an Armenian font available to me when I chose it. I also like the sound of the word, and this is the Byzantine Forum after all.
I have heard good things about the church in Athens. I am glad you were able to worship there and feel at home. Thank you for the video link.
A translation into the English language of the ordination rite (cheirotonia) of deaoneses in the Byzantine tradition (originally in Greek) can be found here (I have not checked the quality of the translation, obviously the title of this site - "womenpriests", is not mine):
i know that the text exists. Does any video of an ordination of the Deaconness in the Orthodox Churches exist. I believe that the Armenian Orthodox Church ordained one in recent years. I was wondering if video existed of the actual ordination of the woman that was ordained.
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. My prayers that you're well, my brother.
