www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Coptic Divine Liturgy

Your schooling does not intimidate me.

You should know what the argument is.

You did nothing to answer some serious questions - which are real

Who do we honor as Saints? How do we merge?

Are the Coptics going to adhere to the remaining ecumenical councils?

One more oint ... now that my blood is boiling again.

Are Coptics - Eastern Orthodox - adhering to the Holy Tradition of Orthodoxy (all 7 Ecumenical Councils)

Has this christology you point out really been resolved between Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Coptics? Where - who?

The only thing presented so far is that they wish to be in Union but that union (with Orthodoxy) does not exist brother.

If it does - then please prove it to me.

Well stated.

I recommend to our brother, Haydukovich, to engage in some serious study on this issue. You should at least read the summaries of the Catholic - Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox - Oriental Orthodox dialogues.

The Oriental Orthodox are not heretical. From the Catholic perspective, they are welcome to worship in Catholic Churches and take the Sacraments (though they are always recommended to form their own parishes).

No one in this thread is claiming that the Coptic Orthodox are in communion with the Eastern Orthodox. I have never claimed that. The Coptic Orthodox are part of a communion commonly called Oriental Orthodox. I am well aware that they are not a part of the Eastern Orthodox communion of churches.

I did not point out my schooling to attempt to intimidate. However, I felt it necessary to respond to your claim that those who disagree with you in this thread are ignoring history. I have five years of graduate theological study. That is not to say that I'm automatically right and those who disagree with me are automatically wrong, but it ought to count for something. I certainly put in a great deal of reading, writing, and thought, and no doubt I will spend the rest of my life paying off the debts I've accumulated in order to obtain my theological education. Again, I'm not putting this out there to intimidate, but to demonstrate that I'm not operating in ignorance of the history or the important theological questions.

As to the questions of who are honored as saints, how we merge, and are the Coptic Orthodox going to adhere to the other councils, I agree that they are important questions. However, those are questions that, if there is to be a restoration of communion, will be resolved by the bishops of the various churches. Not by me, and not by you.

Thank you ... I stand corrected.

I will study more - and I thank all who engage in these discussions.

There is much to learn - especially by listening.

John

Thanks, for this .

Yeah...so any way, the food served after the liturgy was really good. "Boy, you monophysites really know how to cook a lamb," I told them.

How many who say the Copts are heretical have attended Coptic Liturgy or Morning/Evening prayer? There is no chance that anyone who has prayed with a Copt, Syriac, Armenian, etc will claim they are heretics, let alone less Orthodox than the Constantinopolitan Orthodox. In fact, much of the earliest division had to do with Byzantine Imperial aspirations! If anything, one should claim the EO deviated from the common Orthopraxis of Antioch/Alexandria/etc by imitating the richer, more political Byzantines (aka Eastern Romans).

Well, they certainly aren't of the same Rite of the Slavic Orthodox Churches (Serbian, Romanian, Belorussian, Macedonian, Russian, Ukrainian, etc...), to be sure.

Is the the seasoning that the Monophysites use ... it is actually 2 natures of seasonings in one bottle - creating it's own nature!

Is that what you really said, RI?


I find those two of the most hateful posts I've read on this forum. I've nothing more to say, and do not wish to see a reply.

Yes, they are not humorous at all.

Then close your eyes. I believe that just about anyone (apart from you, evidently), following this thread, would read in my earlier post nothing but the most positive and glowing review of an experience with the Coptic Orthodox at one of their liturgies. Would it not utterly beggar belief, then, to suppose that I would subsequently, for no reason, post something hateful about them?

Clearly, the little quip I made was by way of poking fun, not at the Copts, but at the wild debate tangent that ensued in reaction to my post, as to whether or not the Coptic Orthodox are monophysite heretics!

For heaven's sake.

I am sorry to offend

I was trying to make light of the situation and did not mean anything derogatory.

My response was to try and dispell the animosity that was taking over - and probably by my own fault and my own making - by digging my heals in on this issue without open mindedness.

If I was insensitive I apologize. I was trying to make friends with Roman Interloper by joking - and I guess this issue is a very sensitive issue.

I have come to a new undoerstanding though my interactions on this website and my discussions with my fellow travelers and Christian Brethren about the Coptic position thanks to Anthanasius and Nelson and others on this site and I especially apologize to them and all participants on this discussion - as I was trying to finish this thing - make light of it - and move on in brotherly love.

Please pray for me that I stay on this path- of being in Brotherly Love and not so polemic that I close my mind to the Children of God - both Christian and non Christian - Coptic and Muslim Catholic and Orthodox Right and Wrong. Lord keep a watch on my mouth ... put a lock upon the doors of my lips.

John Haydukovich