The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
PoboznyNeil, Hammerz75, SSLOBOD, Jayce, Fr. Abraham
6,185 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 462 guests, and 113 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,533
Posts417,708
Members6,185
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 294
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 294
I often think Pope Francis has a tendency to merely say what people want to hear. I thought the same at first when hearing of his not emphasizing the traditional teaching on homosexuality...Now I have second thoughts. Perhaps things are now at such an impasse that it is poor strategy to emphasize Church teachings merely as dos and don'ts on questions of morality. Not only is the "love" that demand it speak its name a monotonously ubiquitous subject that just wont go away, we are living in a time when even the good works of the Church are not recognized as good by society. I think we need to rediscover what is good about the Good News and who Christ is. I don't want to sound like a buttercup-twirling idealist, but perhaps morals and social justice will fall into place more cogently once the focus is put on Christ. This goes not just for Catholics and Orthodox, but for all who profess Christ. Although those of us of an Eastern bent have a great advantage of an extremely vivid picture of Christ through the feasts and the liturgy.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear Mark,

Pope Francis seems to be getting his message across in a way that people, who would not otherwise care to hear the, as you say, "don't do this, do that's" of morality, at least will hear.

For me, the beatification on Sunday of the martyred Archbishop Oscar Romero of San Salvador is a case in point.

Both the metaphysical materialism of capitalism and the "historical" materialism of Marxism must be rejected by the followers of Christ. Blessed Oscar Romero strongly condemned both as Christ is our Life and the Way and the Truth.

The Left is always upset and even angered to hear of the Church taking the "preferential option for the poor" and yet this is what we are called to do and this is what Pope Francis, as a Christian leader, is calling on all of us to do (as did, of course, Bl. Oscar Romero).

Christianity cannot afford to emphasize the vertical nature of our relationship with God to the exclusion of the important horizontal aspect.

Our Lord, God and Saviour Jesus Christ linked our salvation to both of these dimensions of our life in Him.

Also, "fashionable" Christianity is what is at the root of much of the evils we see in Western society today, nominal Christians who may or may not attend Church.

Re-evangelization needs to begin within our Churches first to get them restarted as reflections of the Divine Light that is to illumine us and the entire world.

Alex

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 294
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 294
Matthew 25: 31-46.
But I think it is a bit much to insist on the elaborate structure of Catholic social teaching in a climate which prevails today. It is predicated on a fairly prosperous and fairly Catholic society, which would be hard to find.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear Bob,

In actual fact, when Pope Francis said that, ("Who am I to judge?"), it was completely taken out of context by journalists. He was referring to a specific case of a priest which they had raised to him during their questioning.

When our Canadian turn-coat, Michael Coren, became Anglican because he said he couldn't accept Catholic teaching on homosexuality, he was asked, in an interview, about the Pope's statement above.

Coren, correctly, responded that the statement was taken out of context and was not, by any means, a blanket anything.

We should not fall into the trap of the liberal journalists by repeating their falsification of the pope's statement . . .

Alex

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,364
Likes: 103
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,364
Likes: 103
Alex:

All the more reason to be very careful about what one says to a journalist of any stripe because we know that they take what they need to make 30-second sound bites to support their own predetermined agenda. Another caveat is to be careful around everyone with a smart phone in hand because one never knows what is being recorded and uploaded to the Internet.

It's one thing for His Holiness as a Cardinal in Buenos Aires to mix with the people in town on the bus or wherever, but it's quite another to be Pope and think the international media is the same sort of warm, friendly group.

In my professional association we solved this problem decades ago by agreeing that no one of us would give a statement to the media with the exception of one of our members who was trained originally as a journalist. We refer all questions or requests for statements to him and he speaks for the group.

Bob

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
...

Last edited by desertman; 06/07/15 03:20 PM.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear desertman,

I'm in hospital so my response isn't all what I would like it to be.

Suffice it to say that you do have an axe to grind against the pope which I believe is entirely unwarranted.

This pope is a very spiritual person and what I find most upsetting in your comments is your contention, without substantiation, that he is somehow presenting the church as a political organization etc. etc.

He continually brings the situation of Christians being slaughtered to the world's attention - it is the world, and the news media that we have in North America (and I hope we don't limit our information sources to these pitiable agencies) which don't want to spent much time on what the pope says and is saying about these issues.

His courage, as but one example, to recognize the Armenian Genocide of 1915 and to declare an Armenian theologian as a doctor of the Catholic Church . . . You can't be serious. This is all ground-shaking and in terms of ecumenism - he goes beyond commissions and ritualistic gestures.

That there are left-wingers in the Catholic Church - absolutely. There always were, especially in the last two hundred years. And so? Does he excommunicate them all? I don't know

In any event, I'm excited about this pope and I know that so very many acquaintances of mine, who normally wouldn't be praying or attending church, are doing so now only because of the pope.

His style may not be to the taste of radical traditionalists - but Catholic traditionalism is already a failed movement within the Church at best, or, at worst, outside the church in the several de facto schismatic movements they have started.

Alex

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,771
Likes: 31
John
Member
John
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,771
Likes: 31
Alex,

I saw deertman's post before he removed it. I thought it well composed. I saw concern, but I did not see him grinding any axes.

At any rate, I expect most of us can - at least - agree that the Vatican is not doing a great job at convincing bishops, priests and the laity to speak Truth.

John

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
...

Last edited by desertman; 06/07/15 03:20 PM.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
...

Last edited by desertman; 06/07/15 03:20 PM.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear Friend,

I don't/can't pretend to know their motivations.

But they attend Mass, pray the Rosary and even want to join the Blue Army of Our Lady of Fatima.

Can you get any more "orthodox Catholic" than that, I askk you? wink

I think not . . .

Cheers, and all the best!

Alex

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
...






Last edited by desertman; 06/07/15 03:21 PM.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
...

Last edited by desertman; 06/07/15 03:21 PM.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,724
Likes: 2
B
Member
Member
B Offline
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,724
Likes: 2
Quote
But they attend Mass, pray the Rosary and even want to join the Blue Army of Our Lady of Fatima...

All practices of the Latin Church which may be fine for them, but how much should they be of interest to the East?

I don't know how to read this pope, but being spiritual doesn't equate with being even a middling-good leader or administrator. I have had the suspicion since he was elected that "what you see is what you get." Maybe we are getting the leadership we deserve and history will have to be the judge of that. However, getting past 'how I feel' and looking at more fact-based evidence would be a good start in evaluating not only the papacy, but also the world around us. I have often thought that today history is often changed into hysteria. It seems to me we live in "the age of Oprah" and have lost the ability to discern and discriminate in the good sense of the word.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,405
Likes: 38
Dear desertman,

I would assume it was in the influence of the Holy Spirit!

My Armenian friends/acquaintances are saying they would love it if their Church was in full communion with Rome and they love Pope Francis.

If you like, I could try to dissuade them from such sentiments and tell them some negative things about the Pope . . .

Maybe not. grin

Alex

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Irish Melkite, theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0