www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization The Bane of Eastern Christianity in America

Irish Ruthenian: "There are a few hardy souls trying to be Orthodox,"

AJK "But this is a perfect example of "they have NO IDEA who they are." We are Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholics not Orthodox."


My spiritual father would highly disagree with you.

History also would highly disagree with you.

When I read the Canons of Brest, I see Rome telling the Orthodox that they can stay Orthodox.

Ruthenianism in America is a Latinized cross-breed. Which is why, I think, that Pope Francis has stated that Uniatism is outdated and needs to be scrapped.

It didn't work.

zaradeptus:

Christ is Risen!!

Welcome to the forum. Sorry fothe two month delay in welcoming you.

Bob
Moderator

For a fuller context see the source post here.

You and your spiritual father (if he's not Orthodox) should go to your typical Orthodox church, explain this to the priest, and ask him if he will give you Communion.

Can you be more specific?

Then there need not have been a union.

It was but that was its via from which it is emerging with successes and failures. I choose to honor the the path of our ancestors, a path that I did not walk and that I do not despise, while confident that it needed to change course, and confident that their faith was genuine. Actually, as I have written here before (as I recall) Latinization stood out in need of correction and that may be a happy fault. What should define "Ruthenianism" if not, at the core, our liturgical expression. We have a Recension and don't follow it in such a way that we embrace it as proclaiming our proper and historical uniqueness. In embracing Orthodoxy, Ruthenians who followed Toth are now and were made to become Russified. Johnstown has fared better under Constantinople but, as I observed and predict, they will become more and more Hellenized. So we, the BCC, are the co-heirs and custodians of a unique liturgical Recension and we squander it piecemeal as exemplified in the 2007 liturgical revisions.

Well, we're still here, and the Ukrainians and the Melkites and... Uniatism is the present bogyman that is not ecclesiastically correct. It's an historical transient while the real substance is Communion: the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, the ONE Body of Christ.

What exactly was it that Pope Francis stated?

I have noticed many Protestants have been converting mostly to Latin Rite Catholicism and it is just more readily available and more widely known. Many feel turned off on seeing a more ethnic rooted parish and don't feel a sense of belonging (even though there are still ethnically rooted Latin Rite parishes in the Rustbelt and the great plains). Also, the Latin Rite seems to be a bit more of a comfortable transition for those raised Methodist, Anglican, and Lutheran.

That being said, many of the Melkite, Ukrainian Greek Catholic, Ethiopian Catholic, Syro-Malabar (they are establishing missions across the country), Chaldean and Maronite parishes can be held up by immigrants.

Christos Voskres!

I concur that it is principally due to the ubiquity of Roman parishes in comparison to the few Eastern parishes.

I am from the West, but have bi-ritual faculties and serve both a medium-sized Western parish (1,400 families) and a small Ukrainian parish (50 families, perhaps). For many years I taught RCIA classes, and the "closeness" of the Mass to their own liturgical practice made it easier for Lutherans, Methodists, and other mainline Protestants to join the West. Few, if any of them, had any experience of Eastern worship; much less knowledge of the East in general.

Whenever I can get ANYONE (Catholic or Protestant) to Divine Liturgy for the first time -- they are always amazed (sometimes awestruck) by the full immersion of the senses in worship. This, coupled with the typical outpouring of Eastern hospitality (and Ukrainian pastries) always seems to leave a beautiful mark upon them.

In the final analysis, I think we could have many more Eastern converts if we could simply find those looking for another home and get them to visit one of our Temples. Since many of the RCIA candidates come from those engaged to or dating a Catholic, who, (also due to the simple math of the size of our Churches) tend to be Roman.

Fr. Deacon Christopher

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I can only speak from a Melkite perspective, but here goes...


BISHOPS VISITING THE FLOCK: Our Bishop visits the parishes of the Eparchy regularly - at least once a year. We will have another shepherding visit from him in a few weeks. We will also have a visit from our Patriarch next year. He visited half the parishes in the Eparchy last year and plans to visit the other half in the coming year.
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As an Orthodox, it is very much important that a bishop visits their flock as much as possible.

I have been under the impression that Latins are included in Melkite parish headcounts, but I don't know if they are included in the Melkite Eparchy Registry.

If not, the inconsistency between the numbers could be an impetus for more official transfers.
.

Fr. Deacon Christopher, I am a Latin rite Catholic who has found the Byzantine Greek Catholic Church (Ruthenian), Eparchy of Passaic, NJ. I was attracted by the Divine Liturgy and the manner of worship where the faithful play an integral part of the Liturgy- in responses, prayer, and song.
I am aware that Latin rite Catholics know little about Eastern Christianity, about the 22 or 23 Eastern Catholic rites because they have never been taught about them. The word "Orthodox" is rarely if ever mentioned from the pulpit. Also, I don't see that Christian unity is mentioned from the Latin pulpit nor are prayers requested for reuniting the holy Apostolic Churches. How can we change this? Is it that the Latin Church is not interested in reconciliation with the Orthodox? As a personal action on my part I have been trying to promote awareness to the term "Holy Theotokos" as the Greek title of the Holy Mother of God as the "God-bearer". Latin rite Catholics should know who the holy Theotokos is. (They know what the Greek term "Kyrie eleison", "Christe eleison" is so why should they not know who the holy Theotokos is?)).
Furthermore, if Latin rite Catholics could relate more closely to Eastern Catholicism and its Orthodox traditions, it would make reconciliation with the Orthodox Church much easier.

Well let’s start with the correct translation of Theotokos. It is not “Mother of God”. That is Mater Theou. It is not “God Bearer”. That is Theophoros. Theotokos literally translated is “Birthgiver of God” or super literally “She who gives birth to God”

The reason that so few Western Catholics know anything about Eastern Christianity (both Orthodox and Catholic) is primarily related to size, and geographic distribution.

While studying for the priesthood is when I first encountered the Divine Liturgy. Although I had lived in several different states, there weren't Eastern parishes in those areas.

The Eparchy that I serve covers more than half the continental US, 28 states in all, with temples in only 15 of those states. There are around 12,500 Ukrainian Catholics in the eparchy. In my Western archdiocese the neighboring parish has more Catholics than the entire eparchy!

As such, if Roman Catholics never meet Eastern Catholics, or never visit their temples or experience the Divine Liturgy it is often because they simply will not meet such a person, or happen across such a parish.

One can read and study about Eastern praxis and worship, watch a video on your computer, and the like; but that is no substitute for actually attending and having your senses over-run with chant and bells and incense and icons and glistening vestments.

In our country, Catholics are much more likely to encounter Eastern worship in the areas that immigrants from Eastern Europe settled. Along the northeastern seaboard, as well as PA, and OH have greater concentration of Eastern Catholics and parishes. Most of those that exist in CA, AZ, and NV were formed by migration of those Eastern Catholics as either snowbirds or retirees, or both.

I would suggest you invite Catholics that you meet to attend Divine Liturgy with you at your temple. Be a spark and let the Holy Spirit work upon them.

Finally, I don't think knowledge of Eastern Christianity is the real stumbling block to reunification of East and West; I think it is primarily papal supremacy.

Fr. Deacon Christopher

I know this thread is a bit dated, but there has been a bit of a surge in Eastern Catholicism topics on some youtube channels recently (within the last year), most notably on Reason and Theology and The Catholic Talk Show.

The Latin Catholics are not shy about letting converts play a large part in evangelizing - Scott Hahn comes to mind. They communicate very well how their spiritual life has been enriched by joining the Church. Perhaps similar converts, or those who changed Churches within the Church, would be similar voices of evangelizing for Eastern Catholicism.

The Eastern Orthodox in this country are not shy either about it, at least in the Antiochian Jurisdiction and Ancient Faith Orthodox Christian Ministries. Popular priests Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick, Fr. Stephen De Young and Fr. Stephen Freeman are all convert priests. I also don't think it would be bad idea to "gently poach" Latin Catholics and if parishes get too large, ordain a married man. Certainly the Latin Rite is big enough and could use the help in providing sacramental care.

our parish priest was explicitly invited by the RC diocese to bring in as many of theirs as he could provide spiritual care for.

Christ is in our midst!!

The problem of caring for the spiritual needs of parishes is becoming universal. My pastor was just assigned to be pastor of a second parish slightly larger than our own IN ADDITION TO OURS. We have about 500 families and three liturgies each weekend. He also teaches at a seminary a distance away and has pastoral care of a local college. I don't how he will do it.

Bob