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I am like many others I've seen here and elsewhere who seem to be perpetually caught between Byzantine Catholicism and Orthodoxy. I don't know which is the true church and can't seem to discern my way through it, finding my convictions keep leaning one way and then another. It would be "easier" to remain Byzantine Catholic since that is what my family is and my going to Orthodoxy may cause problems down the road. However I am 99.999% intellectually convinced that Rome teaches heresies/errors that invalidate her claims of supremacy and infallibility. And acknowledging these historical errors for the facts they are makes it feel like remaining in communion with Rome to be to live with cognitive dissonance. It is very frustrating as all I want is to be in the true church and to have the confidence and peace that I have made the right choice.

Thanks in advance for your prayers. God bless.

Except it doesn't. Orthodox theologians teaching the possibility of universalism in one direction, and teaching that Catholic baptism are invalid (this is especially true in the russian orthodox church, and also quite recent) in the other.
Sounds to me like Orthodoxy has its own problems. So, I think accusing Rome of "possibly" being heretical is really unfounded. Some bishops might be, but so what?
I'll pray for you, but I WON'T pray for you to be confirmed that I'm possibly a heretic.
I've noticed you didn't say what those heresies WERE.
Prayers for you, but not your confirmation bias.

Well this is a prayer thread I didn't want it to turn into a debate thread. Without going into it much further the issues I have are with the heresy of papal supremacy (the Pope is not infallible by himself, no such thing as speaking dogmatically ex cathedra and the pope has never held universal jurisdiction over the entire church, something Rome admits herself in several documents that can be read on the vatican website).

This can be seen as heresy only from a certain point of view, and was not a problem in relations between the various points of Christendom during the first millennium of Christian history.

As someone who has been through this struggle, I can certainly sympathize and attest that much prayers for discernment are needed as well as reading the Church Fathers. You certainly have my prayers for discernment.


Well, you are saying on the one hand:
Which I understand. I was more like 60-40, maybe 70-30 one way or the other on some days. Other days, it seemed more like 50-50.


But then you say this, which seems to indicate that you do know which one is the true Church. If you have decided for "fact" that Rome has taught heresy, I don't see any room for doubt which side you are on, or that you are open to discerning otherwise.

So in the end, it seems like there is a broader discussion you're looking to have outside of prayers. And perhaps that belongs in a different location.

How did you discern through? And what ultimately convinced you of whichever side you chose?

I went Catholic, just FYI.

It was more about coming to terms with some of my own flaws. I had to recognize the following:

1) Hyper-focusing on this issue was actually preventing me from advancing in the spiritual life. So I needed to choose a home even without having ultimate certainty. It required humility for me to admit that.

2) Lots of scholarly minds that are eminently more intelligent than I am disagree about this issue. You aren't going to find crushing arguments on one side or another. I can't expect I'll find or devise an answer that has 100% epistemological certitude.

3) Catholics and Orthodox have a lot of the same problems. A lot of the time, I simply had the perception that the grass was greener on one side or the other, when that's not the case in reality. Again, that requires humility to admit.

4) I've been able to see more unifying trends in the various apostolic traditions over time. I think reading the Church Fathers was extraordinarily helpful in this. As such, being inside a Church that is in communion with all the apostolic traditions means a lot to me.

And I've accepted not being 100% sure, in the same way I've accepted that I can't be 100% sure of my salvation. The choice wasn't purely arbitrary; I do think the Catholic Church is the one Christ founded. I can discuss, give my perspective, and present my conclusions for why I think this is correct. But I am working with the evidence that I was given to the best of my ability. I do not condemn those in the Orthodox Church who may have a different perspective. They will answer for themselves on Judgment Day. May the Lord have mercy on us all.

As for the actual process? I was following a Spiritual Father's recommendation. In additional to the usual (participating in liturgical life of the Church, regular Communion/Confession, Morning and Evening prayer rule), I had some dedicated time for the Jesus Prayer with this intention in mind.

Thank you for your perspective. For me one of the biggest obstacles to remaining Catholic is saints. Orthodoxy has so many magnificent saints (including contemporary saints) that our Byzantine Catholic Churches are always quoting from, filling our gift shops with their writings, etc. But we are not in communion with them. And compared to Rome's contemporary saints who, by and large, are becoming increasingly uninspiring (I don't believe Carlo Acutis is worthy of veneration as a saint at all) and it just seems like Rome has been overcome by the spirit of the age while the Orthodox have maintained their faith, even amidst all the turbulence and interjurisdictional squabbling. I no longer feel at home visiting a Latin parish and, to be frank, I'm just worn out of being told by all the trad romans that I'm a schismatic and a heretic because I hold to Palamism. It feels like Eastern Catholics, at least we Byzantine Catholics, will never fully be accepted by the Latin Church. We are "tolerated" at best but still inferior to the mighty, infallible and supreme latin church. I don't feel like I can continue on with that kind of cognitive dissonance. Even the fact that we Byzantine Catholics and the Latins don't even use the same creed, the symbol of faith. And the fact we differ on created vs uncreated grace seems to be such a glaring contradiction for a faith that is supposedly united. It's a struggle, for sure.

Most Orthodox saints were monastics who just prayed and fasted a lot. That's it, there's not much variety. As a Byzantine Catholic, you can venerate them anyway, even if they don't show up on the liturgical calendar. The same can't be said for Orthodoxy, which in this modern day has been infected by an immature and uncharitable "everything in the West is bad" attitude. There is an enormous variety of Catholic saints from all lands and walks of life.

Which Church has evangelized and spread the Gospel more? Which has started and runs tons of schools and hospitals? Which church is truly worldwide and catholic? Which Church works toward unity, and which one badmouths ecumenical efforts while constantly battling its own internal, petty schisms? Which one has a clear leader? Which one provides more charitable efforts across the globe? Which one is a communion of 24 Churches celebrating half a dozen Rites? Which one has clear teachings on how to receive new converts, on contraception, on how to hold a council? Which Church is the entire world watching right now, seeing who its new Pope will be? There's only one answer to these questions.