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Some people are not receptive to dialogue--the Apostles had to kick the dust off their feet sometimes. This guy is all over the internet insulting people wherever he goes. He is not interested in dialogue. He told me on another forum that I was inspired by Satan for beleiving Orthodoxy is the true Church.

Anastasios

A fellow brother of Saint Moses the Black had committed a fault. The council of monks met with which Saint Moses the Black did not attend. Saint Moses finally decided to go to the meeting after being asked. On the way to the meeting Saint Moses took a leaking jug filled with water and carried it on his shoulder. Upon arrival the other monks came out to meet him asking, "What is this?" Saint Moses the Black replied, "My sins run out behind me and I do not see them, but today I am coming to judge the errors of another." After hearing that, they said no more to the brother the committed a fault, but forgave him.

Ray- Amin.
Anastasios- There was a time I would have said the same about you; I too was once a young zealot. People are led to Truth not through the disgust of those who style themselves orthodox, but through mercy.
-Daniel

I am free to talk to any of you at any time with lengthy discussion on my forum. I just don't have the time to come to this forum here or monitor discussions at many different forums.
http://christianity.3.forumer.com/

I will leave you with a thought or two though. If you want to test me on Watchman Nee you may. You will be found wrong each time since I have found no error in Nee's writings. Secondly, I do not agree with most on the Top 100 Christian Forums, so you are misreading the function of the Top 100 Christian Forums as spelled out here,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/planforbody.htm Thirdly, there is too much misreading, misjudging, excuses, and bearing false witness here, so if you are for real and you really want to talk to me, and learn something from a deeply led brother, I will be available on my forum.

I only stopped in here shortly to invite. I am not here to cater to your flesh. You would be amazed some brothers saved only 4 or 5 hears are more mature in the Lord than one saved 40 or 50 years. For it is a life of overcoming in Christ, not knowledge for knowledge sake. There is not a concern I have not addressed before so nothing you present me will be new, but come, let me help clearing your thinking to have a love, power and a sound mind in Christ.

quote: "I am free to talk to any of you at any time with lengthy discussion on my forum. I just don't have the time to come to this forum . . .

. . . If you want to test me . . . You will be found wrong each time . . .

. . . there is too much misreading, misjudging, excuses, and bearing false witness here, so if you are for real and you really want to talk to me, and learn something from a deeply led brother, I will be available on my forum."
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Brothers and Sisters:

I don't believe this person is serious about dialogue or Truth or anything else that this Forum stands for. I have to agree with the Administrator and others that we need to pray for this person. I would also submit that we should listen to St. Paul where he says in one Epistle not to spend time arguing with those who battle over words.

I have had much experience with those who style themselves Christian but have defined everyone else as not being so. Usually they fit into the framework of the Anabaptist tradition and believe that everyone else is destined for Hell. They usually seem to want to beat everyone else over the head with their interpretation of the King James version of the Bible. They usually seem to be very adverse to any group of Christians who have a history longer than their own.

I, for one, have no further desire to battle in this direction. I'm put off by the words selected above--doesn't have time for us or for dialogue here; it's got to be on his own turf; there is nothing here but excuses; we need to learn from him; he cannot be proven wrong. That kind of arrogance is something that very often cannot be overcome.

For me, St. Paul says it best when he reminds us that we know who our teachers are, and further, that we ought to hold to the faith and traditons we have been taught.

In Christ,

BOB

BOB

You forgot to include his final words, on what is I hope his final post here

The final part I put into bold sends a shiver down my spine.

Anhelyna

Well, I prefer to apply the principle of assuming the most charitable interpretation of another's attitude, so I will assume sincerity and zeal in Churchwork. And youth.
I would like to ask him what standard he is using to assess Nee's theology. Have you studied the apostolic Fathers? Those men who were taught by the apostles themselves? Doesn't it seem that they would be a good indication of what the apostles, who heard the Word of God from the Logos Himself, taught? How does Nee measure up to the Apostolic Teaching? That should be your quest, to find the mind of the Early Church. Even most Protestants, who believe that the Church was compromised by Constantine, believe -or say they believe - that the Apostolic Fathers taught a pure Christianity. Though I have run into Protestants who, confronted by the Catholic Orthodoxy of the Church even in the first centuries, held that apostasy began immediatly after the composition of the New Testament, contrary to Christ's promise to his Apostles that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church.
-Daniel

Daniel:
You posted, "I have run into Protestants who, confronted by the Catholic Orthodoxy of the Church even in the first centuries, held that apostasy began immediatly after the composition of the New Testament . . ."
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My answer is that then they've got to accuse the Apostles themselves of apostasy. There were lots of Epistles and Gospels floating around and it was the Church that decided which ones should be included in the Canon of Scripture. In fact, the one we use was the list of St. Athanasius of Alexandria and he was centuries after the Apostles. The NT wasn't written in the same year as a collection of books--something like an anthology. As with many things, the Church struggled with making sure that everything matched the oral teaching that was going on day-to-day.

Whenever I am confronted with the accusation that the early Church went into apostasy, I always shut 'em down by saying, "Are you saying that Jesus Christ is a liar? He promised to stay with the Church He established until the end of this age. And you're saying that His Church became apostate? Does that mean that you believe that Jesus Christ is part of the Great Apostasy He Himself said was to come since He remains part of His Church? Either Christ is a liar and abandoned His Church which would make all of Scripture suspect or He is part of the Church's apostasy OR THERE IS NO BASIS FOR THIS FALSE ACCUSATION."

Never fails. They can't speak to answer and they don't come back.
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I, too, try to see the best in someone until they come with an attitude. I always try to answer with as much charity as possible. I even prefer to walk away as I have posted and counseled others to do. But when there are those who persist and seem to want to pick a fight, I'm up to the task and can show them quickly that they have picked the wrong man to argue with when it comes to the Faith. I do try to make it short and sweet so that the conversation is over, though the door is always open if the individual is really interested in discussion and REAL dialogue. But these latter presume that each side LISTEN to the other in charity. And many are not open to either listening or charity.
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Anhelyna:

At the risk of looking like a dunce--why not, it fits--who is this Nee person?


In Christ,

BOB

BOB- I haven't a clue who this Nee person is - and I have this feeling that I don't want to either. I have had a look at "our new Friend's own Site - and it's all threads by himself - there 's the occasional one by someone else - but not many

When he said
There is not a concern I have not addressed before so nothing you present me will be new, but come, let me help clearing your thinking to have a love, power and a sound mind in Christ.

I just had this picture of someone who was determined to 'convert' us to his way of thinking - and this was from someone who originally said

, there is too much misreading, misjudging, excuses, and bearing false witness here, so if you are for real and you really want to talk to me, and learn something from a deeply led brother, I will be available on my forum..

He seems to think we are in error and need help to come to our senses . Maybe we do

Anhelyna:

I repeat myself:

"For me, St. Paul says it best when he reminds us that we know who our teachers are, and further, that we ought to hold to the faith and traditons we have been taught."

If it's any comfort, I came here for sanity. And I have found people who are authentic Apostolic Christians. So if we're down the wrong road, we'll all be there together--NOT!!!!!! For what it's worth, the Holy Spirit seems to be quietly moving here in ways that I haven't seen in many other venues. So be of good cheer.

For me, the ones down the wrong road are those who either believe that all Christianity before the founding of their sect was bad, wrong, evil, and hell-bound OR those who believe that the Church started in 1960. But I pray for them that the Lord will lead them to Himself by whatever path He might know they can come by. And I try to be as charitable to them as I can.

In Christ,

BOB

Watchman Nee was a Chinese Christian who died in a Chinese communist prison in 1972, after 20 years in prison. He developed a systematic theology, elaborate and quite an achievement in its way. Central to his thought was a tripartate humanity, divided into spirit, soul and flesh. Many of the things more conventional Christians consider spiritual Nee considered "soulish". His disciple Witness Lee went on to found the Local Church movement, which holds there is only one Christian church in each locality [their's, of course]. He also developed a way of public prayer that consisted of repeated chants, a sort of hypnotic rhythmic thing.
A google search will yield much more information, I'm sure.
In my experience Protestants who are drawn to Nee are seekers after a deeper Christianity than is usually available in American Evangelicalism. Hence my patience with Churchwork, and my annoyance with those of you who have been rude and unwelcoming.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/WNwho.htm
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Watchman_Nee.htm
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Misreading.htm

I am sure. Now Watchman Nee would refuse those chants. By the way Watchman Nee was osas arminian while that witness lee character was calvinistic, having the pride he was premade for salvation as a calvinist.

In American evangelism you don't receive the teaching of the differentiating of spirit, soul and body, nor do you receive the Bibles Word of Biblical locality, nor identification codeath, millennial rewards for overcomers in Christ, nor first rapture readiness to escape the HOUR of trial, and so on and so on.

Watchman Nee did not believe in systematic theology. He believed in obedience to the leading of the Holy Spirit and walking after the spirit as the guiding principle in his being and for the church in locality. These were not his own will but the will of God. He did not believe in tripartite humanity either. Rather, he believed man was tripartite, that he has a spirit, soul, and body.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/spiritsoulbody.htm
You altered what Watchman Nee believes. He does not believe in man "divided into spirit, soul and flesh". Not at all. Rather, he proved in chapters immediately in chapters 1-4 of The Spiritual Man that man is spirit, soul and body. The flesh is not the body alone. For the flesh is the sin of the body and the self of the soul. He additionally showed the 4 ways flesh is used in Scripture. Specifically when we speak of the flesh as it pertains to the man, the Bible refers to the sin of the body and the self of the soul. Pray on this for understanding. Now Witness Lee was a cult leader and of course Watchman Nee would have refused him since in locality there is no central hub like there was for Witness Lee. What Watchman Nee considered soulish spiritual Christians also too consider soulish, Nee being a spiritual Christians as are there others too, such as myself. Note you did not mention anything specific, so your allegation on what is soulish that you presume others that would be spiritual would consider spiritual is unproven.

The people here at this forum have been very rude, yet I am patient with you. One central error is to divide the body on a corporate structure outside Biblical locality. This is wrong. Your conscience needs to realize this.

Read these two books linked here,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm

I put this in your hands now, and leave it up to you to remain bound or to operate in Biblical locality.

My prayers go out to you to find a humble heart in the Lord by the grace of God. God will not move in your spirit if you don't let Him.

Actually, Troy, the idea of the local Church is very much an Eastern Christian concept, one that has lead to much misunderstanding with the centralizing tendencies of Rome.
However, where in the early Church do you find support for your other ideas? Have you studied the Apostolic Fathers?
I readily admit that my knowledge of Nee is partial and incomplete; on the other hand I ask you what is your knowledge of the saints of the early Church?
I have defended you here; I hope you don't see me as an enemy. "Come, let us reason together".

Dear brothers and sisters in Christ!

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I can relate to a lot of the dialogue on this subject.

Our parish and mission, like most of our parishes, consist of Byzantines, Roman Catholics, former Protestants, etc. I was asked by my pastor to conduct some adult education seminars centering on the topic of tradition and Tradition. With the wealth of information available, I felt I could be well prepared to conduct these sessions. There is much to say about who we are: church history, universal Catholic beliefs, particular Eastern aspects of our theological tradition, and the meaning and significance underlying our liturgical and cultural traditions. Our people may not dig very deep into these areas unaided, and I felt reasonably well in providing them some guidance and information.

Before we concluded, he pointed out that, although we would contrast our traditions with Roman Catholics, and our beliefs with Protestant Christians, we should keep in mind that it was specifically these early beliefs and traditions that provided the foundation from which these people would eventually be led to our Church. If the emphasis of our patrimony gave the impression that their early formation was erroneous, flawed or invalid, then they might be inclined to seek another church who gave a better measure to their life experiences.

Yes, we fully ascribed to all truths of the universal Catholic Church, and our particular Eastern patrimony. That was presented clearly in the seminars. However, in presenting our information, it was important to also recognize the early Christian formation in their lives which led them to us, and allowed us to build deeper faith on the foundation instilled within them.

Sometimes it is a delicate balance when you are engaging in sensitive areas. It helps to pray.

Deacon El

It is very simple. Do not make anyone your touchstone but the truth. So what is the truth? Biblical locality. What is Biblical locality?

It's all right here,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm

Why don't you read to understand? And then after you have understood, then post.