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There Church is one and its boundary is the whole world.

You have not established to us that you speak with any authority.

If you consider yourself to be an informal apostle, do you then consider all other Christians who hold a Bible in their hands to also be informal apostles? If yes, then why do you believe your opinions to be true and the opinions of others false? If no, then why do you believe that you alone speak with authority and all others do not?

No, you have not even established the essentials about the Bible you quote from. Please answer the questions put to you above.

There are many thousands of denominations that have separated themselves from the Church. You yourself are not completely in communion with the Church. The solution is not in your fictional idea of locality but in embracing the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC Church.

You need to first deal with the questions put to you. After you come to a true understanding of the Bible, where it came from and how it is to be interpreted, then we can move on to correcting your incorrect beliefs about �locality�.

Please go back and answer the questions put to you. If you do not answer them we can only understand this as an admittance that you do not have answers that you yourself believe. Please do not continue to attempt to change the topic until you answer these questions.

You asked me if I thought everyone is an informal apostles. To show you how inconsiderate and little you read, about whether everyone is an informal apostle, read,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm
All you had to do was read where it says "not all Christians are apostles". I can't even feed you milk.

The boundary of the local church is not the world for Satan is the god of this world, and you are telling me he is your god. The Bible says otherwise. Instead God does not give power to such centrality that your flesh seeks for God knows man's flesh. God produces the church in locality, never exceeding it. eg. church of Corinth, church of Jerusalem, church of Ephesus, church of Edmonton, etc.

Administrator, your spirit is dead insensitive to things of God, don't you know. Listen with your spirit, not the mind of your soul.

I think I need to take my own advice and re-read:
Of Patience by TERTULLIAN

Regarding patience. What you are actually doing is reverting to a copout. Let me explain.

You sense an impatience in you. Rightly so, since you are fighting God's will on scriptural locality. So what do you do? You seek additional patience, while circumventing the truth. That's all you are doing.

The truth remains, no matter how patient you succumb to the evil spirit and even using the Word falsely so as to circumvent the truth of biblical locality. This is hard for you to take I know, but it is God's will, and nothing will stop this to come to bear.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm

My prayers are going out to you.

Troy,

Please note that I did not ask you what the Bible teaches us about this subject. I asked you what you personally believed because most of what you have stated is false. What you have posted is not in accordance with the Holy Scriptures.

I know quite well what the Bible teaches about apostles. I am trying to figure out what you believe so that I can provide you with some milk that is simple enough for you to digest, since it is obvious that you have been eating false teachings for some time.

Your accusation against me is false. You have not yet even established your credentials to speak. You have no basis upon which to know the truth, let alone speak of it.

The one Church is CATHOLIC, this means �universal�. It exists everywhere. It is catholic because Jesus Christ is present in her. St. Ignatius of Antioch, one of the Church fathers, summed this up nicely when he taught that: �Where there is Jesus Christ there is the Catholic Church.� In the Church subsists the fullness of Christ�s body united with its head. The Church receives from Christ �the fullness of the means of salvation� (see Ephesians 1:22-23).

The Church is also catholic because she has been sent out by Christ to bring salvation to the whole human race which inhabits the universe. It is in this sense that the Church is the Church of the whole world.

The Church of Christ is present in all legitimately organized groups of the faithful. These groups of the faithful which are not united together with the local bishop who is in communion with Rome lack perfect communion with the Church. The Church teaches this because, in the words of St. Maximus the Confessor, �from the incarnate Word�s descent to us, all Christian churches everywhere have held and hold the great Church that is here at Rome to be their only basis and foundation since, according to the Savor�s promise, the gates of hell will not prevail against her.�

Your testimony is not in agreement with the Word of God.

On what authority do you make such a statement?

I submit that it is you who is insensitive to the truth.

You have again ignored the questions about Scripture and authority which I have put to you. Please answer them.

How was the Church given the Word of God?

Do you deny the fact that the bishops of the Church prayed and voted on the books which belong to the New Testament? How do you explain that the Holy Spirit led them correctly to create the New Testament and yet did not lead them correctly in other things? If you deny this do you believe that the books of the New Testament fell out of the sky with a written command from the Holy Spirit? Please explain.

Why do you put your faith in their decision and not Martin Luther�s decision on which books belong to the New Testament?

On what authority do you hold such a belief?

Admin

Troy,

I am very patient to politely ask the same questions over and over again until you answer them. Each time you refuse to answer the questions you are copping out.

You are fighting God�s will and the truth of the Bible. You are speaking falsely and your words are not in accordance with the Holy Scriptures.

On what authority do you make your claims that I have succumbed to the evil Sprit?

On what authority do you claim that your words are true and the words of the Church which gave you the Bible are false?

Why do you keep refusing to answer these simple questions?

I know it is very difficult for you realize that you have believed what is false. Please know that we will pray for you, that the Holy Spirit lead you to the fullness of the Gospel in the Church.

I hope that my questions will cause you to think. If you really respect Truth you will think about these questions and provide answers, and not simply keep changing the subject.

Admin

Admin,

YOu said,

Yes. The Church is universal. This is called the universal church. For example, I may live on one side of the planet, while another believer may live on another side of the planet, and another brother standing right next to me, or one that proceeded me by 800 years, but we are all brothers in Christ members of the body of Christ of the universal chuch, and will be resurrected in the Last Week consummation of this age as well as live in the the new city in eternity future. That is true and obvious. However, these items I am not talking about, and have not been addressing specifically. Read to understand. I can't stay here forever to cater to you.

In order for the church to fellowship as was the case in the NT, the church functions in locality and fellowships therein, meeting on the Lord's Day. For example, the church of Corinth, or the church of Dallas, or the church of Ephesus, or the church of Shanghai. How simple and pure. The reason why God does not expand the responsibility beyond the church in locality is because He knows your flesh admin.

You keep fighting, but God's will is the church in locality, not your corporate structures, regional ideologies, and just another denomination.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Boundary.htm

I will be praying for you to read this. You're stuck in your same old same old. I won't be able to get through to you because you are not ready yet admin.

Contact me, anyone here who can understand what I am saying simply, when you are ready,
http://christianity.3.forumer.com/

Though you may be saved, even by carrying on this way as you are, you will lose the rewards of the millennial kingdom (Rev. 20.4) and not escape the Hour of trial (Rev. 3.10). That is a fact.

Troy, no one here asked you to come with your false testimony of the Gospel. If, however, you wish to learn the fullness of the Truth I am willing to work with you for as long as it takes.

Your testimony is not in agreement with the Word of God.

On what authority do you make such a statement?

Why do you refuse to answer simple questions about the origin of the New Testament and the source from which you claim your authority is superior to that of the Church?

I will be praying for you to take these simple questions into your heart and ponder them. You are stuck in false teachings. If you pray over these questions the Lord will show you the error of your ways and lead you home to His Church.

�Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.� (First Letter of St. Paul to Timothy 3:14,15)

Please post again when you have answers to my questions. I will spend whatever time is necessary to lead you home.

Once again I ask Forum members not to participate in this thread until Troy answers my questions. All other posts will be deleted. If Troy ponders the questions I ask he will see the error of his ways and come home. Please do not allow him to distract us with his false teachings.

Admin,

Why do accuse God's Word when He speaks of the church of Ephesus or the church of Jerusalem, and thus today the church of Paris or the church of Arlington? Please don't post again until you deal with this fact. Deflection is no way to behave. Don't let the admin deceive you into divisions.

Nowhere will you find in the Bible, this denomination or that denomination, or this regional belief or that regional belief, or this corporate structure of churches or that corporate structure of churches. Wake up!

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm

The Church fathers were in complete agreement: �Where the bishop is there is the Church.�

�Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 16:17-19)

God did not build his Church upon locality. He built his Church upon the Rock, which is Peter, and the other apostles.

You are correct that the Bible does not speak about denominations. That is why the Church recognizes only herself as holding the fullness of the Faith. You must shake yourself so that you see the truth of the Bible. You have been eating falseness and it has blinded you to Truth.

Why do you choose to not answer my simple questions?

Why do you refuse to answer simple questions about the origin of the New Testament and the source from which you claim your authority is superior to that of the Church?

On what authority do you speak?

Why do you ask people to believe what is false?

I am praying for you to take these simple questions into your heart and ponder them. You are stuck in false teachings. If you pray over these questions the Lord will show you the error of your ways and lead you home to His Church.

Admin, stop fighting with your conscience. First you go forthe world church argument, then you go for the rock argument, but the truth the church is built up on the rock which is Christ, not some man, not even Peter, for Peter too is just a man. The church is built not on world denominination or domination, but the personal Christ, and in that local assebly of the church in locality.

Then remove yourself from man's denomination that you are in.

Why do you continue to not answer the simple question about why it is ok for the church to operate on Scriptural locality in the Bible, but not today?

Why do you make this man's authority above God's authority?

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Boundary.htm This is God's authority to prevent your flesh from doing what it is doing right now in your unholy affair with your denomination.

Praise the Lord church locality prevents this. Admin, may you now come to see your sins and let them die on the cross.

I hesitate to post but I think that the reasoning with "Churchwork" is not getting anywhere. Admin, you must be feeling like you are arguing with one of those "Tracts" put out by Jack Chick or a "Bible Society" I do not see where this is really leading. "Tony" is not really addressing any of the points but keeps retreating into this bizarre "locality" doctrine which is alien to both Orthodoxy and Catholicism and indeed mainline Protestantism.

Troy, you still have not answered my questions.

By what authority do you speak?

You claim that you are an �informal apostle�. There are many thousands who make the same claim. Each has an entirely different teaching about the Bible. Your teaching is one of many. You have no authority to speak and what you speak is false. Stop and admit that you cannot answer these simple questions.

I am not in a denomination. I am in the Church that Christ created. The Church is the people of God. The Church is apostolic. She is built upon a lasting foundation: �the twelve apostles of the Lamb� (Rev 21:14). She is indestructible (cf Mt. 16:18). She is upheld infallible in the truth: Christ governs her through Peter and the other apostles, who are present in their successors. �There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.� (Ephesians 4:4-6)

This is the teaching of the Church that gave you the Bible. Why do you believe these bishops when they give you the Bible but reject them when they teach you about other things?

By what authority do you speak about these things? You are not an apostle. You are a charlatan. You speak only falsehoods.

You have not yet established any authority to speak. You have not even established why you accept the Bible the Church gave you but reject the rest of what the Church has handed down through the ages. Your whole argument about �Scriptural locality� is utter nonsense. It is false. It is not from Scripture. It is nothing more than a personal opinion that twists and distorts Truth.

By what authority do you claim to know what God�s authority is?

By what authority do you claim that the Bible you hold is the real Bible, except upon the testimony of the bishops which gave you that Bible? Why do you not choose the Bible of Martin Luther? Why cannot you answer these simple questions?

I am praying for you to ponder these things so that the Spirit may lead you into all truth, so that you will come home to the Church.

Please answer my questions instead of continually changing the topic. Links to fictional articles do not count as answers.

Brian,

Troy is a member of a cult. My goal here is to plant seeds within him that can grow into a desire for Truth. If Troy is open to the Truth then he will think about the questions I have asked him. If he thinks about the questions I have asked, the Lord will use those thoughts to lead him from his cult, and into the Church.

It is quite possible that right now is not the Lord�s timing. However, the seeds can wait. It is possible that in six months or six years my questions will rise up in his mind and demand an answer. When he finds he has no answer the Lord will lead him back to His Church.

While these types of discussions do not present themselves too often on the Forum, I engage in one or two a month with people who e-mail the website. I have had the privilege and reward of having at least one person later contact me to tell me that my testimony has helped lead them into the Church.

Please join me in praying for Troy.

Admin

Admin,

You keep asking for my authority? I have already told you by the Holy Spirit leading in my spirit in agreement with the Word of God and agreement with the church. This questionaire is very important,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/needtoagree.htm

I see you accused church in locality saying it is a cult, saying it is nonsense, but according to Jude 1.18,19, "mockers, walking after their own lusts of ungodliness. These are they who set themselves apart, natural men, not having spirit" (Darby). Therefore, you are in a cult because the Bible is very clear on church locality and has been fully proven here, http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm

"And when they had ordained them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they believed" (Acts 14.23).

A helpful question to ask yourself is, the place that you go to fellowship, does it have a corporate structure beyond that particular building and do you have elders of your particular city with no affiliation to these corporate structures of multiple buildings spanning many cities? This is the easy proof to determine whether you are in a denomination or not, which is not based on your saying you are not in one (your flesh), but actually documentation of ownership and where it resides in reality.