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If any here in secret can appreciate what is being said here, please contact me, add your locality to the meeting place locality map, and let me know if you are an informal apostle with authority to selected elders who manage the local church as a unit, no larger, nor smaller, and no association outside outside itself, does not attach itself to regional beliefs and merely accepts the church per city as a unit. This is the vital principle not being employed today.

I do not expect a response here to be this way for Christ as led by His Holy Spirit, so I will not move here further. For this to begin in a substiantial way I realize what must be done. It must occur locally in my city and nearby cities as a living example how it ought to be done. Presently I know of no place in the entire world where this is happening in such an officially proper way of an apostle selecting elders to manage church affairs for the entire city. How sad.

Having put it out for you as the way to do it, perhaps you will begin in your local cities also and begin this move where you live. This map finder is to aid in that move.

Bye all.

�O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you. Avoid profane babbling and the absurdities of so-called knowledge. By professing it, some people have deviated from the faith. Grace be with all of you.� (1 Timothy 6:20,21)

Hi Troy!

To be blunt, we are not really talking. You have come into our house and posted lots of fiction. Then you refuse to answer any questions put to you. That is not really a conversation and not appropriate behavior for a guest towards his hosts.

One of the sure signs that an individual is involved in a cult is a steadfast unwillingness to acknowledge fact. Eusebius� The History of the Church provides a very good and factual look into the life of the early Christians. Why do you deny what has been proven to be true? It must be very difficult for you to live suppressing the truth.

Jesus Christ does not require that His people reject an accurate account of history in order to be correct in their theology. You have provided many proclamations in your posts here but have not once offered any objective proof. Your appeals have not been to Jesus Christ, His Church or to the Bible, which is the product of His Church. You instead have only offered the testimony of a man, Watchman Nee, who is a heretic.

You have altered the Word of God. You have given it a distorted meaning, a meaning unknown until the advent of the heretic, Watchman Nee. Your testimony is false.

I am praying for you.

Admin

I agree that we are not really talking, since you are not listening, and I appear to be talking to a wall, having stated a fact of Scripture of the church operating in locality, not beyond that. You refuse to answer this fact, and acknowledge it, accepting it.

This is what I come here to address, and this is what you ought to deal with by the Holy Spirit when you come to Christ, instead of continually trying to blithe it away. Each time the Lord causes me to speak, is each time that I call you to address this. Now if the byzantine pergamum-thyiatira condition is not a cult, ask yourself why you are unwilling to acknowledge this fact of the church in locality when it is so plain in the Scriptures? Suppressing Scripture is no way to live. It is as if you are not in control of yourself possessed by the demon of roman catholicism and the goddess idol of pagan religions. This is ultimately very demented.

You attack spiritual Christians like Watchman Nee, but on what basis? Your ground is as shaky as your faith, a faith that is not in Christ. It is truly billigerence to continue to ask for proof when each time it is given to you, that indeed there was a church of Jerusalem in a region called the Judah and referred to the churches of Judah. Why deny this? However man in history has altered things which should be no reason for you to deny this for you ought not to be dependent on men's flesh as your guiding principle as I caught you doing with a quote of just such a man. The same is true in all the various regions and localities that the apostles visited to set up the churches and the elders within.

We must conclude that in fact since you call Watchman Nee a heretic, with no basis, that you are a heretic and since you are part of something that is heretical, you must not be a Christian at all but indeed are part of the Great Harlot of relgious Rome warned about in the Scriptures in Rev. 14.8 and Rev. 17 as she sits on the beast of nations and makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications. You are truly a member of an evil system, and you shall perish. Evil spirit come out of this man Admin. Come out now, you have no right in this soul who is running this forum.

I am convinced you are unregenerated admin. Your words prove it reflecting your heart. My prayers are for you specifically to come to Christ for the first time in your life for real, and stop playing pretend.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/7churches.htm

Note: This message was originally posted by me on December 14th. I am reposting it now so that my response to Troy is not lost. Please feel free to begin new discussions but please do not post in this thread.

Hi Troy,

Thanks for your post.

I have always read what you have written. I reject your �Local Church� theology because it is a distortion of Scripture. Your theology does not conform to either the Holy Scriptures themselves or to the testimony which we have from the Christians of the early centuries. In order to accept your �Local Church� theology one must give a new and unique meaning to the Scriptural passages you have selected to support your theology. Such a meaning is simply not found in them and never has been found in them. Further, you must also reject historical evidence to hold your position. You refuse to acknowledge this and cling to a position that is unsupportable. You can claim that all the evidence you disagree with is from man and not of God, but when you stand before us stating that the Holy Spirit has led you to believe that the sky is red and the grass is purple no one is going to believe you. Repeating your claims again and again will not make them true.

�Local Church� theology fails at every level.

First, it places hard and fast boundaries on the local church. Such boundaries are not found in Scripture. The New Testament never uses the term �boundary� to refer to any part of the church. The Scriptures do no set geographical limits on the local churches or even discuss the issue. There is no Scriptural passage stating: �The boundary of the local church shall consist of X, Y, and Z and no more.� The Holy Scriptures state only that local churches were established.

Second, it ignores the clear lines of authority present within the Church at the time of the apostles.

If we examine the Scriptures on this point we see the following (to look at just a few examples � note the lack of any reference to �boundaries� and the definite references to autority):

Matthew 16:18 �on this rock I will build my church� is a reference to the worldwide church, which is all local churches united together. Christ clearly did not build a federation of loosely organized local churches but one, worldwide Church consisting of the sum of the local churches, all in agreement in theology.

In Acts 9:31, �Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria� refers to the single church which exists as a compilation of local churches existing in cities and towns. In this case it would be all the local churches existing in Judea, Galilee and Samaria.

In Acts 11:26, �So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people� we see that Barnabas and Saul, who were representing the entire Church, spent a year teaching the local church at Antioch.

In Acts 14:23, �[Paul and Barnabas] appointed elders [or �ordained elders�] for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.� We see that Paul and Barnabas had authority over each local Church and appointed their elders (presbyters). Even if Paul and Barnabas simply oversaw local elections of elders, they confirmed the choice and allowed it by virtue of their authority as apostles and bishops. The idea of independent local assemblies is simply not Scriptural.

In Acts 15:4, �they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders�, which is an example of a local church.

In Acts 15:22, �It was resolved by the apostles and the presbyters, in agreement with the whole Jerusalem Church, that representatives be chosen.� The Council of Jerusalem was an assembly of local churches who came together to resolve issues facing the larger church. James chaired the council because he had already replaced Peter as bishop of the place, but we see that Peter spoke with authority to resolve the issue and �the whole assembly fell silent� (15:11). It was Peter who resolved the issue for the entire church. Each local church did not have the independence to do as it pleased.

Let�s continue to look at some of the specific churches referenced in the New Testament:

-Romans 16:1, �the church in Cenchrea�

-Romans 16:5, �Greet also the church that meets at their house�

-Romans 16:23, �Gaius, whose hospitality I and the whole church here enjoy�

-1 Corinthians 1:2, �To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ�their Lord.�

-1 Corinthians 14:23, �If therefore the whole church be come together into one place�

-1 Corinthians 16:9, �Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.�

-2 Corinthians 1:1, �unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia�

-Colossians 4:15, �Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.�

-1 Thessalonians 1:1, �Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians�

-2 Thessalonians 1:1, �Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians�

-Philemon 1:2, �And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house�

-Hebrews 12:23, �To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect.� (Here �church� is used to refer to the members of Christ�s Church, including the just men and women of the Old Testament who have already inherited the promised blessings through the Resurrection. It includes them as part of the entire assembly of Christian believers.)

-1 Peter 5:13, �The church that is at Babylon�

-Revelation 2:1, �Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write� (see also 2:8, 2:12, 2:18, 3:1, 3:7 and 3:14)

As we look at the way the word �church� is used in the New Testament we see that there are no references to boundaries. The only thing we can legitimately see in Scripture is that as believers first came to Christ they gathered locally in believer�s houses, then in additional places as the church grew. As was logical, there was only one local church in a city or, as they grew, in a neighborhood. But such local communities were never independent and restrictions on organizational size were never imposed. Local churches were always subject to the authority of the bishop of that city or region. Occasionally, when there was an issue or the visit of an apostle, we see that the entire Church in a region would gather together (the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 is a good example). All local churches were subject to the authority of the apostles, and then to the bishops appointed by the apostles. There were clear lines of authority. Peter, the chief apostle and bishop, speaks and the matter is settled. The apostles had clear lines of authority over the local churches. A hierarchy of authority was already in place. All this and not a word about boundaries of local churches.

If we again look at Acts 14:23 we see that Paul and Barnabas ordained bishops and gave them charge over all of the local churches in places like Lystra, and to Iconium, and Antioch. Scripture does not address geographic boundaries. It only references that local churches existed in various places. The bishop at Lystra would certainly not have authority over the bishop of Iconium. But these bishops certainly had authority over those local churches who met in people�s houses (which grew into what we now call �parishes�) and the apostles certainly had authority over these bishops.

If we look at Galatians 1 we see that Paul calls the Galatians to account. �I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.� If the church at Galatia was truly independent, then Paul would have no authority over it. Paul, however, did have authority over the churches of Galatia. He defended that authority and taught correct theology with it. Clearly, authority is specifically addressed. If we study history we can see the succession of the apostles, right down to today. Boundaries are never specifically addressed in Scripture. One must read into the Holy Scriptures things that are just not there to come up with the theology of boundaries that you suggest. Further, one must actually reject Scripture to support your theology of total independence of the local church.

Ultimately, the early Christians were not concerned with a question of geographic boundaries. But Scripture does set up a structure of authority, one in which the apostles were in charge. This authority structure continued in the church as it grew and this authority structure continues in the church today.

I reject Watchman Nee�s theology because it is not in agreement with the Holy Scriptures. You offer nothing but his opinion and your own to support your claims. Your opinion proves nothing. Just because you say something is a fact or that it is true does not make it so. A study of Scripture, which I have done above, quickly shows that the whole theology of boundaries is not commanded by the Holy Scriptures. You have failed to provide even a single verse which specifically sets either the limits of a local assembly or the independence of a local assembly. The verses you have used, together with those I have provided above, state only that the church existed at a specific place. There are no Scriptural references to boundaries. Further, and more importantly, the theology of the independence of the local church is not supported by Scripture. The hierarchy of authority within the church was already established in the early New Testament Church. The apostles themselves showed their right to intervene in local churches to correct them when they were in need of being corrected.

Why do you believe that the Scriptures say things that they do not say?

In testing your theology against that of the Church and Bible, which is the Church�s first and foremost creation, it is clear that Watchman Nee�s theology is incorrect and unbiblical (and your theology, since you put your faith in his theology). There is great basis for calling his theology heretical.

Troy, I have not questioned your salvation or your dedication to Jesus Christ. Although your theology is twisted, I am sure that you do truly seek to follow Christ in all things; and that in the end you will be saved by God�s mercy. But the fact that you might be saved does not mean that your theology is not a severe distortion of Scripture.

What you have taught is easily proven to be false.

I continue to pray for you. I pray that the Lord is using your desire to visit here repeatedly to plant and nurture seeds of Truth within you.

Admin

You have errred. It is not called the Local Church for that is a misrepresentation making it some central head. No. There the local churches, church in locality just like in the NT, eg. church of Ephesus in the churches of Asia Minor or the church of Jerusalem in the churches of Judah or the church of Paris in the churches of France. You are not really hostile to me but to God since this is the way God describes it in the NT. Your flesh is strong to deny this stuck in tradition that has been against this. How long Satan has been working, so long, and he is so patient too in such things.

It is understandable for what else can your flesh
do? Whomever I am talking to, in regards to the last conversations from
the two threads that I am on, the admin
tries to make the argument that
there is no boundaries mentioned in the Scriptures when in fact there
was which were the churches in locality. The church locality was never
exceeded. That is in fact a boundar which it is named by we may refer to
as a Biblical city. This is a fact. This is what the boundary is, the
church in locality, but you yourself have already exceeded that in your
heart, this is your sin. You have to accept your sin, but you cannot.
Also you have a misuse of Jerusalem in assuming that everyone came from
a region to dictate the truth in
Jerusalem. No, that is not what Acts
15 was about. Acts 15 was the apostles in Jeruselem and the elders in
Jeruslam literaly. Besides some apostles functions as elders also. The
apostles are people. They perform the function of setting up the churches
and then giving up control, moving to set up other localities, never
taking ownership of those localities, though certainly emploring people

to do what ought to be done in those churches. That is what is unique
about the apostles, not set up as stoggy positions in some greater
organization of eastern orthodox. Now that these facts are established we
can realize that Nee got it right and you are doing it wrong, and in time
it will bear out.

The same holds true of Mary. God can so easily dismiss your claims by
the Holy Spirit by showing Mary's mistakes which are sins or self in
Scripture, therefore she was a sinner born into sin. That is your second
error.

What do these errors all come from though? They come from one source.
Pergamum. A marying of the world to the church, constantine the higher
tower that will be broken when Christ returns.

I realize you can not hear me nor understand but these beliefs of yours
are enough to reveal your unregeneration. Not to say everyone is
unsaved in ECC, but certainly most are unregenerated, never truly receiving
new birth. They are called the pigs in the church.

First you must come to Christ before you can ever begin to understand
these things,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/rethinkingthework.htm

Bottom line: you have exceeded the boundary of the church, which is the
Biblical city. Never do you see the church of Judea. it is always the
churches of Judea. Never do you hear the "eastern orthodox church which
is even larger than a Biblical region.

How powerful you have become. Your high tower will fall in the most
unexpected way, both the western roman church with you and the eastern
orthodox church, that expand in power structures that just are
unacceptable just like the world with pergamum.

I really encourage you to read the pergamum and thyatira churches here.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/7churches.htm

Obviously we can not continue to talk because you have blocked your
forum and your spirit with the flesh of your soul, but do not think I do
not avail myself to you.

I am available for you if you ever decide to come to Christ and wish to

overcome this matter. I would love to hear of your new birth and your
deliverance from this heinous teaching of yours.
http://christianity.3.forumer.com/

I summary:
1) Mary is a sinner
2) You have exceeded the church locality.


This is what causes you to divide the body of Christ. That is that. If
God can't do anything with you, how could I? You're not saved. How
could you be with these teachings of yours?


Love,
Troy

Troy's post is so sad. I think it just shows us yet again what happens when one is not part of an apostolic Church; it is so easy to go astray and interpret the Bible in completely false manners. Each of us who is a member of an apostolic Church should be thankful every day for the gift God has given us - and not through any merit of our own!

What I think is ironic is that the Eastern Churches have actually been the best at maintaining something akin to the "churches in locality" that Troy is preaching. What he preaches is false doctrine, to be sure, but there is truth within it (as is usually the case with heresy). Each local Church (or diocese) in the early Church was somewhat autonomous, with each bishop being the head of their local Church in totality. The Eastern Churches have always maintained this truth, and admittedly the Western Church has at times not.

Of course, we know that all bishops are to be in communion with each other, and that the local Churches make up the universal (or "Catholic") Church. Let us pray that all who follow the name of Christ might enter into her fold!

Dear Administrator,

It's up to you, of course, but it would seem that the "discussion" has exceeded the parameters of courteous discourse within an ecumenical framework and has developed into a direct attack on our "heinous" Catholic and Orthodox Church traditions.

I've come across a number of people who, when they choose to speak to me about religion, use it as an opportunity to attack mine.

And no one should have to put up with that kind of childish and discourteous nonsense.

The tone and content above, while erroneous, constitutes a direct and, from our point of view, blasphemous attack on our Christian tradition.

My own suggestion, which I make by also breaking the rule for posting here, is for us to continue praying for our friend, but no purpose is served by continuing this thread, from my view.

For me, and for others here, the tone of attack and disparagement is upsetting to us during the Nativity Season.

Humbly submitted,

Alex

This is the most popular discussion on your forum for obviously I am affecting souls.

I can't find anywhere in the Bible the church exeeding Biblical locality so why do fight so fervently in your flesh to defend that which is not given by the Scriptures.

You are not the church. You may saved Christians in your midst rarely here and there, but you are not the church as God desires and so this is your sin. It will keep you as a carnal Christian.

If you want to learn something instead of staying stuck in mistakes of tradition, then that is where today's apostles come in and select the church elders to maintain administration over a locality, and not exceeding it.

That is where these two links will come together,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm


http://www.multimap.com/map/browse....p;scale=40000000&out.x=3&out.y=5 [multimap.com]

Indeed you are ! and I will not say in what way

And I know that Admin has asked us not to post on this thread but I repeat to you what I have posted on

https://www.byzcath.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=002928

Anhelyna

Today is not a blessed day for Santa Claus is really Satan Lucas as celebrated by Satanists laughing profusely.

Anyway these are the best two Christian forums on the internet today as far as I know,
http://christianforums.itopsites.com/

Perhaps in 10 years from now there will be 98 Christian forums more.

I had an epiphany from this forum.

This conversation and what I am trying to get you to see, that is members of this forum who are are like brick walls in traditions of men, must be a sign of unsalvation.

That is the only explanation why you would remain in man's ways rather than God's ways.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm

The Holy Spirit has just immediately pulled me away from The Byzantine Forum recognized in my spirit. I want to stay and talk I really, do but the Holy Spirit is literally ripping me away from this forum right now as I am typping. Wow!

That is power and strength in the Holy Spirit. My will is complying.

Dear brother in Christ,

The wisdom of the Holy Fathers of the Church of two thousand years tell us that not all spirits are of God, and not all revelation is of God...

Let us not forget, Troy, that Mohammed also had a revelation from an angel...and his wife, in her more enlightened wisdom told him to beware: not all angels and visions are from God.

If only he had listened to her wisdom.

I think that you get the jist of what I am trying to say.

The divine enlightenment of the Holy Spirit is composed of nothing but pure LOVE.

When the holy monastics, and the great saints, of the *two thousand year old* Eastern and Western Church who have put away all earthly pursuits and pleasures experience it, it consumes them with burning LOVE for ALL persons.

Have a blessed birth of Christ.

Praying for your enlightenment to follow HIS tenets of love, peace and charity,
Alice

P.S. We do not celebrate Santa Claus, (the memory of the great and benevolant Saint of Asia Minor, Nicholas, Bishop of the Early Church, is celebrated on the sixth of December).

Ignorance and intolerance of other's customs and beliefs is what has led to Christian divisions. Think about it when pursuing your 'churchwork'.

quote"
"I had an epiphany from this forum...
The Holy Spirit has just immediately pulled me away from The Byzantine Forum recognized in my spirit. I want to stay and talk I really, do but the Holy Spirit is literally ripping me away from this forum right now as I am typping. Wow!"


Troy,
It is a spirit all right, but not the Holy Spirit, LOL. I'm sure it IS pulling you away, LOL!
So sad to see you go, especially on Christmas Day, the birth of YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. Have you mentioned JESUS CHRIST in any of your posts? I guessed I missed it.

May the love of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ be with you always. We will continue to pray for your soul Troy, and not allow our own souls to become angered by your dark attacks.

Peace,
Sam

The Holy Spirit leads me to point out Matt. 7.21 and Rev. 22.18,19 to you.

That is why your forum would not be allowed here as is noted in point #3,
http://christianforums.itopsites.com/

That's all I can do to help you all here,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm

Understand Biblical locality and that is exactly where the Lord wants to deliver you.

Now if you can't be delivered on this point, and if your spirit can't see the great harlot of religious Rome, then we need to go deeper to affect change in your lives. We need to go to the dividing of your spirit, soul and body and there is where the deliverance can be generated by the cross differentiating what is of your soul and what is of your spirit (so read The Spiritual Man),
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Watchman_Nee.htm

The sense I get of here is that of those playing the middle of the road between the great harlot of religious rome and the higher tower marriage to the world of constantine. Man thinks he is being cunning, but he is just exposing the holding onto sins of both parties.

Yuk!

http://christianity.3.forumer.com/

Troy,

The Holy Spirit must be a bery confused person to lead you out of this forum and then lead you back. Well I don't believe that since the Holy Spirit cannot be confused. Instead, I believe this is just more proof that you are following your own doctrines and not the doctrines of Christ. I will be praying for your conversion to New Testament Christianity.

Anastasios