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#67460 11/13/03 02:44 PM
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Bless, Fr. Deacon Ed!

Yes, one of our parish's priests came to my mother's home for breakfast after Divine Liturgy and he came in full cassock with pectoral Cross.

He told me RC's say that he looks like a bishop . . . wink

It's a beautiful tradition, all in all.

And I love the prayer that everyone may say when putting on their Baptismal Cross "Let God arise . . ."

I believe there is also a tradition that pectoral Crosses should ideally be three inches long and be hung on a thirty inch chain or cord - to make up the 33 years of our Lord's Life on earth.

In any event, may we all wear the Cross of Christ and be faithful to Him Who was crucified on it!

Alex

#67461 11/13/03 03:08 PM
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Correct me if I'm wrong again. But monsignors (who are not bishops) may wear the pectoral cross.
Now I've got another question. I've seen some bishops with a panaghia, and I've also seen some wearing both panagia and pectoral cross at the same time and than there are the ones that wear two panaghias and a pectoral cross in the middle. (I guess this most likely is reserved for the Patriarch).

#67462 11/13/03 05:13 PM
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Lpreima,

You write:
Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong again. But monsignors (who are not bishops) may wear the pectoral cross.
If they are simply monsignors then they may not wear the pectoral cross. The problem with this term is that it is also applied to bishops -- and they may wear the pectoral cross.

Edward, deacon and sinner

#67463 11/13/03 05:49 PM
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Alex:

The pectoral cross granted to Russian priests by Tsar Nicholas II was on the occasion of his coronation in 1896. On the reverse is a reminder to "Be an example to the believers . . ." The whole explanation can be found at the Eastern Christian Internet Supply Store

http:www//easternchristian.com/index.html

under their pectoral crosses section devoted to sterling silver and other metal crosses.

As to whether this was a custom prior to that, I cannot say.

When you asked about carrying a hand cross, it reminded me of a unique gift my spiritual director gave me some years ago. It's a reproduction of a cross carried by Catholics in Ireland during the "Penal Times" when there was persecution. It consists of a cross about five or six inches long which has had the cross bar shortened on both ends and a leather loop attached at the top. It is designed to be carried up one's sleeve with the leather loop around one's finger. Apparently the poor used a leather loop in place of a ring and so this crucifix was something that could be hidden on one's person when it might have been illegal to have it in one's home. Sorry, I don't remember which museum gift shop he said he had visited to find this item.

In Christ,

BOB

#67464 11/13/03 06:02 PM
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Well, let's see what I can offer the discussion:

"The Eastern priest wears a pectoral Cross at all times, correct?" I don't know whether this is true of the non-Byzantine East. In the more strictly Byzantine world (Greece itself and the MIddle East) the priest would not normally wear a cross on the street, though there is nothing to stop him from so doing.

"The Bishop wears the panaghia, correct?" - again, if we are speaking of the Byzantine (Eastern Orthodox and Greek-Catholic] Churches, yes.

"In the West, Latin priests do not wear a Cross - this is reserved to bishops, correct?" - While the habitual wearing of the Cross (which should contain authenticated relics) is habitual with Latin Bishops, so far as I know there is no specific prohibition which would prevent Latin priests (or deacons, or lay people) from wearing a Cross if they so choose.

"But is there anything preventing a Western priest from wearing a pectoral Cross?" No, although it would be pretentious to wear such a Cross if it too obviously was an imitation of a bishop's Cross.

"And Eastern laity do not wear Crosses on top of their clothing - this is reserved to priests, yes?" I know of no such canon or tradition, and I have certainly met lay people who visibly wear Crosses. Again, though, this should not be an obvious imitation of a priest's Cross. A friend of mine, who has no ambitions to be ordained, habitually wears a small Cross (from a worn-out rosary) over his necktie.

"Can a lay-person carry a hand-cross with him or her and also use it for signing oneself with the Sign of the Cross?" I know of nothing to prevent this, and have often seen small hand-crosses in Athens which appear to be designed for just such a use.

#67465 11/14/03 02:17 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:

And I love the prayer that everyone may say when putting on their Baptismal Cross "Let God arise . . ."

Alex, would you provide the full text of this prayer and the background of its usage? It sounds like part of the Pascha liturgy.

-- Michael the ignorant

#67466 11/14/03 04:26 AM
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Regarding the "Tsar Nicholas II" myth of the priest's cross - I think that this particular cross was minted (as a gift to every priest in the Russian Empire) to mark the 300th anniversary of the Romanov dynasty. However, this was by no means the first time that priests' crosses were minted - Tsar Paul I did the same thing in the seventeen-nineties. Patriarch Pimen of Moscow did the same thing in 1988 to mark the millennium of the Baptism of Rus'. And so forth. I've heard it claimed that Emperor Peter I required every priest to wear a Cross, so that the Emperor would not be embarrassed by asking for blessings from deacons! I don't believe that one for a minute; Peter I was not the type to go around asking for blessings. But the story is indicative of the sort of "creative historiography" we are dealing with. The truth of the matter is that the priest's Cross developed from the Baptismal Cross which every Christian should have. It is legitimate to ask what lies behind the "thinking" of people who object to the priest wearing, of all things, the Cross of Jesus Christ. Incognitus

#67467 11/14/03 05:55 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by FrDeaconEd:
Dear Alex,

Deacon Lance is correct, a Latin Rite priest may not wear a pectoral cross at all. There are some exceptions to this, however. Fr. Bob Taft is permitted to wear one because of an honor granted to him by the Eastern Catholics. I believe he does not do so except in the presence of Eastern Catholics.
Deacon Ed,

Robert Taft is not Latin, except in having been granted bi-ritual faculties (which I believe is true of all Jesuits who are ordained to Eastern Churches). He was ordained to the Russian Greek-Catholic (then) 'Rite' in 1963.

He wears a pectoral cross as a consequence of have been elevated to the dignity of Mitred Archimandrite by His Eminence Myroslav Ivan Cardinal Lubachivsky in 1998, in recognition of his service to the Eastern Churches. As well, in 1999, a second pectoral cross, with the right to wear the double pectoral insignia, was conferred on him by His Grace Archbishop Vsevolod of Scopelos (Kolomijcew-Majdanski) (Eparch, Western Eparchy, Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the US) on behalf of the Ecumenical Patriarch, to recognize his extraordinary scholarly work on Orthodox tradition.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
#67468 11/14/03 09:57 AM
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Dear Michael Brooks,

Here is the text of the prayer that one says when putting on one's neck Cross in the morning - or taking it off at night if one does take it off:

"Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered and let those who hate Him flee from His Presence. As smoke vanishes, let them vanish; and as wax melts from the presence of fire, so let the demons perish from the presence of those who love God and who sign themselves with the Sign of the Cross and say in gladness:

Rejoice, most Precious and Life-Giving Cross of the Lord - for you drive away the demons by the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, crucified on you, Who went down to hades and trampled the power of the devil, and gave us you, His Venerable Cross, to drive away all enemies. O Most Precious and Life-Giving Cross of the Lord, come to my assistance with our Holy Sovereign, the Virgin Mother of God, and all the Saints throughout the ages. Amen.

Guard me, O Lord, by the power of Your Holy and Life-Giving Cross, and keep me from all evil."

One then kisses one's neck Cross and makes the Sign of the Cross over oneself with it - and over one's bed before retiring.

A very meaningful tradition in the East has to do with three-bar Crosses with slanted foot-rests.

One always kisses or reverences the upward point of the foot-rest that signifies the forgiveness of our sins, along with the Good Thief, and we cry to our Lord with him: Remember us, O Lord, when You come into Your Kingdom!

Alex

#67469 11/14/03 10:03 AM
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Dear Incognitus,

I'm very much inclined to agree with you - but that's because your viewpoints mesh more with mine than the others! smile

I'd have to do research, but I think the historic case can be made for the outward wearing of large neck crosses even by laity, let alone priests, in Eastern Europe.

For one thing, there is the Old Rite tradition of explaining what the neck Cross represents to those who ask "What is that?" (To which first question one replies: "I wear on my body the Marks of the Lord Jesus").

That can only really be an issue of one wore a cross where everyone could see it.

I've also heard and seen pictures of pious Orthodox Christians in Eastern Europe wearing large three-bar Crosses on cords over their clothing when in Church and even elsewhere (one woman from over there complained to me that men have "gone crazy" with that practice . . . wink ).

Certainly, the issue of making sure one doesn't look like a priest is important.

When I went to see the Pope last year, I wore my large three-bar Cross on top of my shirt - and I wore it around for most of WYD festivities here.

The Pope didn't complain and he had a large cross on too . . . smile

Alex

#67470 11/15/03 03:53 AM
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Alex, thank you for providing me this information. I intend to incorporate it into my own practice.

#67471 11/18/03 01:28 PM
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The extent of my received knowledge - told to me by an Orthodox priest - about Russian silver clergy crosses:

The wife of Paul I requested a blessing from a deacon. To prevent another such faux-pas, the Czar required that priests wear a simple (one bar) silver cross, this in 1797.

Nicholas II changed it to a three bar.

Peace.

#67472 11/18/03 04:36 PM
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From what I heard, the real story is that a one bar cross wasn't enough because Nicholas' II wife couldn't see very well either so he made all the priests wear a larger three bar cross.
Lauro

#67473 11/19/03 06:33 AM
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During much of the synodal period, the three-bar cross was an object of revulsion for the Church authorities. In the diocese of Kholmgory episcopal agents toured Churches and villages, seizing the three-bar cross as a sign of dissent and the dreaded Old Belief. It was only with the rize of the Slavophiles and the renaissance of truly Russian sacred art that the three bar cross started to reapear in Russia.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

#67474 11/19/03 04:36 PM
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Sorry a bit, but:
a) the Nicholas II priest's cross is a bit smaller than the Paul I priest's cross, so the earlier one would have been (marginally) more visible, not less visible.
b) It is not at all difficult to find examples of three-bar (8-pointed) crosses in use in the State Church during the Synodal period.
Incognitus

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