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I have a basic understanding of the Orthodox procedure for confession. But I'am curious about other aspects, such as frequency. Do you have priests who will verbally rip you to shreads ? (they still exist in the Latin Rite) and does the penitent use a particular formula for the beginning and end of the confession, and how does the priest pronounce absolution ?

Lawrence,

I will speak from personal experience and from what I have heard from other Orthodox Christians.

Frequency varies by jurisdiction and ethnic/national persuasion. In some jurisdictions there is a direct correlation of confession to Communion, sometimes 1:1. That is usually practice where the communion of the faithful is infrequent. In others not so. Some do not practice frequent Communion, some do. In many OCA parishes you will find that regular Communion means every Sunday. In some Serbian parishes, just to give an example, maybe once a year. In some parishes the custom might be four times a year (four fasting seasons).

I've never been ripped to shreds by any priest in confession either now that I am an Orthodox Christian or previously when I was Catholic. I have only heard one story of a woman who was told something very offensive and off-the-wall by an RC priest in confession. Being faithful to the Church's tradition may mean being stern but as far as I am concerned would never include ripping to shreds of anyone in a confession environment.

As for the formula, etc., that too varies. Some priests have the practice of asking certain questions (there are lists of these), obviously if the priest knows you he will be more apt at asking questions about your life. It seems there is more the issue of etiquette than formula, what I have observed is that one approaches the place for confession then kisses the icon, cross and Gospel (either on the analogion or at a kneeler), then the priest may or may not recite some beginning, in some places he places the stole over the shoulders of the one confessing, then begins the confession either as questions-and-answers, just telling the sins or another type of dialogue. It is my understanding tht penenaces may be assigned but I have not been given one as an Orthodox. The priest then pronounces the absolution while laying the end of the stole over the head of the penitent and signing the head. There are two basic formulae, so called "Greek" and "Slav" the Greek does not contain the interpolation attributed to Moghila "and I an unworthy priest..." After that the penitent again reverences the icon, cross and Gospel and receives the priest's blessing (to commune I understand).

Tony

Dear Lawrence, as mentioned previously there is great variability in the practice amongst Orthodox parishes. Some Antiochian and OCA parishes offer Confession every Saturday evening after Vespers.

There are guidelines for penances and questioning in various Greek and Slavonic trebniks/ euchologions, some very ancient but again there is a substantial amount of variability in the questioning of the penitent and giving of penances as there is in the Latin church.

The primary difference in the Greek and Russian style of absolution is the passive or active form of pronouncing the absolution. The Greek usage (passive): May God who pardoned David through Nathan the Prophet when he confessed his sins, Peter who wept bitterly for his denial, the Harlot weeping at His feet, the Publican and the Prodigal, forgive you all things through me a sinner, both in this world and in the world to come, and set you uncondemned before His terrible Judgement Seat. Now, having no further care for the sins which you have confessed, depart in peace.

Russian (active): May our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, by the grace and compassion of His love for mankind, forgive you child, (name) all your transgressions, and I, unworthy priest, through His power given unto me, forgive you and absolve you from all your sins, in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

May I relate an anecdote?

(Some say I am in my "anecdotage"...)


Last year at the Uniontown Otpust I was chatting with a lady I'd never met. She wanted to go to confession, but was hemming and hawing - she was terribly nervous because she'd never "confessed Byzantine" and was afraid she "wouldn't do it right."

I told her, "Look. Suppose when you were a child, your family moved to a foreign land, where they spoke a different language. Suppose you broke your father's favorite vase. Would you wait until you learned to apologize in that language before running to your father with tears? Your Father LOVES you."

I saw her later, and she was radiant. She had been to confession.

I have never met a Byzantine priest who isn't more than willing to hear a confession - and most of 'em are quite accustomed to penitents who were raised with the Latin formulas. If you are unsure of what is "de rigeur" where you are, tell the priest - and I am CERTAIN he'll be overjoyed to provide guidance.

You don't need a particular "formula".

I'm sure that somewhere in the world there are Eastern priests who are horrible confessors but I haven't met 'em yet. When you go to your Father with tears - well, our Lord is tender mercy, and that's where you'll find Him.


Cheers,

Sharon

Dear All:

While I have not heard of anyone being ripped to shreds in the confessional, I have heard many-a complaint about Eastern priests (both big-c Catholic and big-o Orthodox) aksing sexually explicit questions after people were done confessing the sins on their own.

Question 1: is it proper for a priest to try and elicit additional sins once someone is done?

Question 2: if someone is truly offended at something that is asked/said by the priest in confession, what is one's recourse?

Yours,

kl

KL,

Hmmm.

My thought is that there could be one of two things going on.

The first possibility is one that I hesitate even to consider or mention, that I have never experienced, hope never to experience, and would suspect is very, very, very rare if it happens at all - that there's something illicit in the line of questioning.

I find the second to be more likely - What I *have* experienced, and I devoutly hope my confessors would continue to do as the Holy Spirit gives them light to see the need, is questioning as a physician would question. If I have been fainting, my doc will ask me about other symptoms - some of which I may not know could be related to my fainting. Likewise, if I confess sins of a certain flavor, my confessor may well ask me about potentially related areas of sin. For this I am grateful. It helps me to see connections, it may open up areas I have not yet opened to grace, and it may also help to negate the effects of the well-known BLANK memory that befalls some of us in confession, no matter how well we may have prepared before. If asked about sins which are not my particular burden, I can say "no, Father."
As for myself, I would MUCH rather he asked...

Sharon

So there is no penance given in the East ? Also I'am a bit surprised by the infrequency of receiving Holy Communion in some Orthodox Churches. I've attended a few Ukrainian Rite Catholic and Maronite Churches, and Communion was offered every time.

What I mean by being ripped to shreads in the confessional, is when a priest says things to you like "Do you love mortal sin that much" "Do you want to go to hell" "Do the sufferings of Our Lord mean nothing to you" Unfortunately some people I've talked to in very traditional parishes think such pastoral counseling is quite appropriate.

A priest who made such silly statements to a penitent obviously was not trained in a particularly good seminary. Growing up in the Latin Church (post-Vat II), I never really had such a horrible experience in confession except once from a particular Redemptorist with a 16th Century mentality during a Mission

But I have found that my confessions in the Eastern Church both Catholic and Orthodox have been much more fruitful and less about reciting "laundry lists" of sins.

That's cool about the Greek and the Russian forms of absolution, but what do we have in the Ukrainian and Ruthenian Churches (Catholic that is)?


Stefan

Most use the latter "... absolve you of your sins... This is when the priest with his Epitrachelion over the confessee's head makes the sign of the cross while giving the absolution.

Ung-Certez

Do Eastern Catholics ever have general confession? If not, is this prohibited by Rome or just a general latinization?

Axios

Stefan-Ivan,

They are the same in my experience.

Dmitri

Dear Axios,

My Eparchy allowed for the general confession but only if the people had gone to private confession beforehand. It's not much practiced now.

BUT, the Old Ritualist tradition of the public Forgiveness is very much like a "public confession" even though it does presuppose private confession.

At the end of the Hours, the Midnight Service and at Compline, there is the mutual Forgiveness practiced by Priest and People in the Old Rite.

And the Old Rite regulations stipulate that the triple Forgiveness was be attended to.

It does give a sense of the public nature of sin that private confession alone may not.

The Reader's Service Horologion by Fr. John Whiteford of ROCOR does provide a prayer that laity may recite as a form of a "Reader's Forgiveness Service."

Have a great day - and, if I may say so, I admire you - in general!

Alex

Dear Lawrence,

I know of one Ukrainian Orthodox priest (he was at my Church but left - I hope it wasn't anything I said! ) who has become quite the disciplinarian when it comes to giving the "epitimia" or penance at confession in his Church.

I know that a friend of mine, also a convert, was actually excommunicated three times by him in confession in the first two years since he became Orthodox.

"Excommunication" here means a sentence passed by the confessor to the pentitent NOT to approach Holy Communion for a specified period of time to help him or her get over a habit of serious sin (in my friend's case, "disobedience").

Normally, and especially if the priest is not a convert ( ) one is not going to have the ancient canons of the Church applied stringently to one in confession . . .

My former employer attended confession where the priest was a real fire-brand.

I went to visit him at his home where I found him reading the long Canon of St Andrew of Crete.

He was quite perturbed and told me that his priest wouldn't absolve him.

"Vlad, you were just here three weeks ago to confess the same sin, weren't you?" he asked.

"Vlad, this is no joke - don't be upset, kiss the Cross and the Gospel and I will bless you - but I won't give you absolution until you've made up your mind to stop committing that sin."

He didn't tell me what sin that was . . .

"And, Vlad, did you say the Canon of St Andrew before you came to confession today? No? Well, now let's go over a few things here . . ."

I've been to confession where the priest took it upon himself to ask me all sorts of probing questions about my married life.

He then felt it his duty to give me a few pointers on "Arousal 101" especially when my partner "wasn't in the mood" ("Who does she think she is?" )

The "confession" was so long that there was some question whether I would get to go to Communion that day . . .

And after I left, I was wondering if I shouldn't go to another confession to really get that "inner clean" feeling that seemed to be absent during the previous confession . . .

I've also noticed that priests sometimes have their pet peeves when it comes to sins.

There was one confession when I listed, in some detail, all sorts of sins.

But when I mentioned that I had fought with my brother - WOW!

The priest blew up at me.

It was like calling someone a series of names only to have that person respond angrily to just one of them, "you're incompetent, inept, inadequate . . ." "Now hold on there! I'm not inadequate!!"

Alex

Slava Jesu Kristu,

I think an argument can be made that Byzantine priests who spend little time in confession with someone are a product of some degree of Westernization (note: not Latinization). The Eastern concept of Confession and Penance is meant to be rigorous as I see it. The situation that Alex speaks of of a penatant being denied Communion for a period of time is very much in keeping with good spiritual practice as described by some of the Fathers I have read. I think the West lost a little of that when the screen was introduced. Confession became impersonal to some degree.
Though I do not advocate harshness, I do think the softer approach adopted by some goes a bit to far. Of course, being the great sinner that I am, I need all the understanding available.

Dmitri