www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Church Slavonic among Poland's Lemkos

Well, you shouldn't miss our parish website at:

http://www.mateusz.pl/goscie/grekat

But hurry, please, as we move soon on a better
server.

AFAIK it's only a bilingual prayerbook, which
contains nothing but the Liturgy text in Ukrainian
(printed in Cyryllic!) with paralell translation
into Polish (in fact, a very poor one).

During all the Summer Kostomloty are visited by
thousand of Polish Latin-Rite guests. Various
Polish youth religious groups have camps there
and take part to the Liturgy. So the pastor
uses a bit of Polish, but it is not a properly
approved translation.

I'd love to read it.

Some major differences besides g/h: Ukrainians
pronounce "jat'" as "i" while Russians as "je";
Ukrainians have no "akanije".

There is not a rule for all. Sermons are
delivered mostly in Russian, Ukrainian, or Polish.
His Grace Archbishop Abel of Lublin and Xolm (Chelm) sometimes preaches in these three languages during one homily!

You may visit www.cerkiew.pl [cerkiew.pl] - they have a forum
and the language of sermons and liturgy is
very often being discussed there.


So it seems to be true, why don't you just believe
"everyone"?

Actually, it was perhaps a decision taken at a
soborchyk (meeting of clergy presided by Bishop)
without a written form, or even an informal movement, probably influenced by the situation
in Ukraine (where Ukrainian became liturgical
just after regaining the freedom of religion in 1989/90).

Sincerely,
deacon Peter

Deacon Peter,

Thanks for the response.

I visted your website. Also, I attended liturgy at your church last spring sometime. It's a beautiful church. Later I visted the nearby museum of folk architecture. Thanks also for the link to www.cerkiew.pl. [cerkiew.pl.] Their discussion on language is exactly the thing I am examining - how different people, because of their background & own personality, have different liturgical needs.

As they used to say in my grandparents' community in Texas when I was a child, "Pan Buh zaplat'"

Stojgniev

Note that the in Orthodox diocese of Preshov, Slovakia, the ordinary liturgical language remains Slavonic. There remains a language problem in that region in general, involving Slovak, Ukrainian, and the renascent Rusyn; but in the Orthodox Eparchy services are in Slavonic.

The pronunciation of Slavonic was an issue in the nineteenth century, when the Russian government tried to stamp out the pronunciation natural and traditional in those parts of the former Rzeczpospolita that fell to Moscow during the Partitions. As you suggest, the g/h difference was involved (although what is considered the correct pronunciation in Russian Slavonic is a fricative and not a stop). The jat' is also pronounced differently in Ukrainian Slavonic. It is still common enough to encounter Russians who fault any pronunciation of Slavonic other than their own as "incorrect"; I have even encountered Finns who insist that everyone needs to pronounce Slavonic as the Patriarch of Moscow does.

Stephen

Yes, the situation in Slovakia is almost as complicated as that in Poland. Thanks for the info on Church Slavonic among the Orthodox in Slovakia. In Slovakia I have only visited Greek Catholic liturgies in Bratislava & Presov. I was in Presov 10 years ago & don't exactly remember, but I think it was a Slavonic liturgy on Sunday morning.

Thanks also for confirming the info on the phonology & phonetics of Slavonic. What about the grammar itself - does anyone have info for dating the age of the recension of Church Slavonic that is used today? For example, verbal tenses - are the tenses the same as in modern Russian.

I suppose that it dates to some official synod or meeting of Russian bishops, when the current recension was officially "petrified." But I have no idea when that would be - eighteenth century maybe?

Stojgniev

The usual current recension is, of course, that utilized in the "Nikonian reform" of the mid-seventeenth century. The basis of it, however, is the grammar by Meletii Smotryc'kyi (Mialecii Smatryckii if you are Bielarusian, as he was), who flourished in the 1620s--I don't recall the date of the grammar. Smotryc'kyi aimed at a version of Slavonic that would be as neutral as possible in respect of Russian/Ukrainian/Bielarusian differences. Russian is the most conservative of the Slavic languages in a number of respects and hence has a natural advantage in this respect, but Smotryc'kyi was not trying to Russify anyone.

Ukrainian orthoepy in Slavonic uses the Ukrainian pronunciation of hlahol and iat', to the irritation of many Russians who are quite sure that they have the true and correct pronunciation. But on such issues as the pronunciation of 'old e in new closed syllables' and 'old o in new closed syllables' (now both identically _i_ in standard Ukrainian), Slavonic is never as far as I know Ukrainianized. In Smotryc'kyi's day, there would have been a good deal of variation in the pronunciation of these vowels in different parts of Ukraine, as there is to the present day in Carpathian Rus'.

For good discussions of these issues, try to find writings of George Shevel'ov.

The Nikonian recension spread throughout most of the Orthodox Slavic churches, because the Russians were printing books in Slavonic before anyone else (except the Montenegrins at Cetinje). In the Uniate churches of the Rzeczpospolita a pre-Nikonian Slavonic continued in use and into print; and after the Partitions this remained true in the Hapsburg empire. The churches of this area have experienced "creeping Nikonianization" over the centuries, not an all-at-once replacement of the old text by the new one. The farther back in time you go, the more the Ruthenian books agree with the "Joseph's text" used by the Old Believers, against the Nikonian text. These pre-Nikonian texts, however, are not very different in respect of grammar from the Nikonian ones.

Stephen

Thanks, Stephen, for the information. I am familiar with Shevel'ov but am not aware of anything he wrote specifically on Church Slavonic. Could you direct me to a specific source?

So that means that the grammar, verbal tenses, etc. of the contemporary version of Slavonic essentially date to the 17th century.

I can recommend an interesting publication - Pravoslavnaja Rus' published at the Orthodox monastery in Jordanville NY. It's been several years seen I've looked at an issue, but if I recall, the orthography is prerevolutionary, but the grammar borrows much from modern Russian. The "purer", more archaic varieties of Slavonic are used there in prayers & religious texts, while the current events-type articles use more Russian.

I found the article I referred to here in an earlier posting. It is Andrzej Zieba's "National minority - religious minority: Polish Greek Catholics in the 20th century" (it is a typescript that was published in Toronto Seminars in Ukrainian Studies, 9 March 1989).

Turns out that E. Rydz-Smigly and Jozef Beck came from Greek Catholic families, as well as a number of Polish political activists & linguist Jerzy Kurylowicz. The author estimates the number of Greek Catholics claiming Polish ethnicity (& language) in the early 20th century at 76,000. Also ran across another excellent study: "The Greek Catholic Church and Ukrainian Society in Austrian Galicia" by John-Paul Himka (Harvard Univ, 1986) & also by Himka: "Sheptyts'kyi and the Ukrainian national movement before 1914" (Morality & Reality, ed. P. Magocsi, Edmonton 1989). Each article presents interesting data on the relation of religion, language & ethnicity.

Stojgniev

Shevelov has an article on the orthoepy of Slavonic in the Russian Empire, which contains at least as much information on the pronunciation of Ukrainian as on the pronunciation of Slavonic, but does deal with the Slavonic issue. However, I can't find it just now; if I come across it, I will post it here. It seems to me that it was in one of those symposium volumes . . .

That's interesting about 76,000 Polish Greek Catholics; I wouldn't have guessed that high, but live and learn. The Rusyn issue in Slovakia is quite complex; traditionally, people speaking an eastern dialect of Slovak and either GC or Orthodox thought of themselves as Rusyns, and the linguistic border is not at all sharp (is Sotak a far western dialect of Ukrainian or a far eastern dialect of Slovak? George Shevelov could answer that, but it's beyond me). Now, of course, there is pressure to adopt a Slovak label, and opposed to that, pressure to adopt a Ukrainian lable, with a lot of people who just want to go on being Rusyns. I don't suppose, if one said, for example, "uzhe fryshtykuvaly sme," it would be understood well in Moscow, in Kiev, or in Bratislava . . . .

Stephen

Stephen,

I'm not sure if I get your point but it would be "we've already had breafast." That is a borrowing from German IIRC and would not be standard Slovak but it appears that it was/is understood by some. As for Kiev or Moscow, that is beyond me.

T

You got it with no trouble. My point was just that among Rusyns one hears expressions that are no part of standard Slovak, Ukrainian, Russian, etc. This is nothing unusual; there are dialects of Italian and of German that are pretty incomprehensible to most Italians or Germans, so it is not decisive one way or the other. This sort of construction, however, does extend well into the more "Ukrainian" speech areas of the Carpathians, or so they tell me.

As for the loan word from German, I don't know how widespread it is, but some such borrowings must be current widely (_fra�r/fra�rka_ 'boyfriend/girlfriend', na pryklad). And then there are the Magyarisms: pohar, ezer, etc. And Romanianisms: _krachun_ (I am trying to discover if that one is known in Bukovyna; no luck so far).

Anyhow, if I come across the Shevel'ov article I will post a better reference.

Stephen

I believe pohar comes from Czech & would date to the interwar period.

The Shevel'ov article sounds like it could be very useful.

Related to the Rusyn issue is the spoken & written language of the Rusyns of former Yugoslavia, who for the most part are descended from immigrants from the Slovak-Rusyn borderlands. Birnbaum & some other linguists identify their language as a Slovak dialect (though written in Cyrillic). Not sure what is the fate of that language since the troubles in Yugoslavia & the American bombings from which Serbia has not yet fully recovered.

Incognitus recommended this book: Living Languages in Catholilc Worship by Rev Cyril Korolevsky (1957). I bought a used copy from the Barnes & Noble website & received it yesterday. It is a thought-provoking, deeply researched book! Anyone interested in liturgical languages absolutely must read it. The author devotes a whole chapter to the introduction of Hungarian in Greek Catholic services (not very flattering for the Hungarians, his relation). Plus he examines intelligibility of liturgical languages in all the major Christian Churches, claiming that Romanian & Arabic (reflecting contemporary vernaculars) are the only liturgical languages that are fully intelligible for the average congregant (of course he refers briefly to what was then the new phenomenon of English & Spanish liturgies). I assume his background is Rusyn/Ruthenian.

A couple of more questions: Can anyone provide the period or date when (1) Ukrainian was first used in a liturgy (either in Europe or the diaspora); (2) English was first used in a liturgy? I will appreciate any help (I realize the info may have been posted here recently but being a new participant, I missed it).

Stojgniev

P.S. An additional question: If one wanted to view a large & diverse collection of Rusyn-American newspapers, in order to compare the different varieties of literary Rusyn used in America in the 19th & 20th centuries, where would one start? Do the fraternals have libraries with their own newspapers?

Stojgniev,

To my knowledge the first English Divine Liturgy was celebrated by Archbishop Fulton Sheen at the Uniontown pilgrimage in 1955. From that point on English was used alongside Slavonic until it gradually replaced it. Also of note, the first English Eucharistic Liturgy of any kind in St. Peter's Basilica in Rome was a Byzantine Divine Liturgy celebrated by Archbishop Nicholas Elko during the Second Vatican Council.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Fr. Alexis Toth was an early advocate of English language Divine Liturgies. According to the parish history of his parish of St. Mary in Minneapolis, they had English Divine Liturgies starting in 1905.

Actually, he was of pure French origin (real
name: Jean-Francois Charon).


I am not sure whether you're asking about Ukrainian liturgy in general, or especially
(Byzantine) Catholic one?
If in general: it was in 1920s in Ukraine among
Ukrainian "self-ordained" (lypkivtsi) autocephalists.

Sincerely,
deacon Peter

I would definitely love to have a photocopy of
the article. Could you send me it? I would be
very grateful indeed.
My address is:

Ks. diakon Piotr Siwicki
skr. poczt. nr 40
20-001 Lublin-1
POLAND

Rydz's maternal grandfather was a GC (name "Babiak"). Beck was from Protestant family.
Kurylowicz, yes, you may also add two well-known
Srokowski brothers to the list.

The "estimated" number of 76 thousands seems odd.
Why not 81.000 or 74.500 for instance?

Sincerely,
deacon Peter

Sotak is a transitional dialect between Ukrainian and Slovak. There are (or were) several communities in the Pittsburgh Metropolia and the Johnstown Diocese where Sotak is (or was) commonly spoken.

English Divine Liturgy among Greek-Catholics - a convert cleric (actually a Bishop) living in retirement at a Roman Catholic seminary in Maryland used to serve in English as early as World War II, so that the seminarians would be able to respond. I believe that the first public celebrations of the Divine Liturgy in English by Greek-Catholics in the US were in Shenandoah, PA, soon after World War II.

Incognitus