www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Priests called to live in celibacy

Dear Friends,

Here is a story about the Pope's statement that priests are called to live in perpetual celibacy:

www.ewtn.vnews/getstory.asp?number=24803 [ewtn.vnews]

Comments?

Alex

[ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

[ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

[ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

First,
Let me correct the link for Alex.

http://www.ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=24803

Now my comments, the topic headline reads as RECEIVING THE PRIESTHOOD MEANS ALWAYS LIVING CELIBACY

But the article mainly talks about what the Pope had to say about Sacrament of Penance to Archbishop Luigi de Magistris, major pro-penitentiary, and to the prelates and officials of the Apostolic Penitentiary.

Only in the final sentence does it say, "If this applies to all virtues and moral habits, it is clear that it is all the more necessary in the case of chastity, given that when the candidate receives holy orders, he must live in perpetual celibacy."

I have no problem with this, as he is addressing Bishops within the Latin Church and celibacy is the discipline within the Latin Church for those recieveing ordination to the priesthood.

It does say holy orders though, permanent deacons are not subject to perpetual celibacy if they are married at the time of ordination.

I think this is an act where the Pope is commenting as the Head of the Latin Church, not as Pope.

David

Dear David,

Thanks for the correction, Big Guy!

However, why do you say that the Pope is speaking as Head of the Latin Church only on this matter?

As our Russian friend in union with the "Third Rome" would say, where do you get your facts?

(How are you today, Friend?)

Alex

Dear Alex,

I tend to agree with David's point of view on this one. Unless it can be specifically proven that he meant *all in Holy Orders* to include Eastern Catholics, then that's the only logical view to take with regard to what the Pope said. As David rightly notes, Holy Orders includes the diaconate, and I don't see any permanent deacons in an uproar now that the married ones have to be celibate. Clearly (at least to me), this refers to Latin priests. It was an address, to a Latin hierarch, pertaining to matters of the Latin Church.

With that said, I think the use of "Holy Orders" rather than "Priesthood" betrays an older feeling that one only receives Holy Orders when one is ordained a priest, and that the diaconate is just a stepping stone to that end. Old habits die hard, I guess. But other than that minor point, I really have no ill will toward the substance of the Pope's remarks. I read this before, and it didn't phase me then. Upon a closer reading, it still doesn't.

Alex,
I may be wrong with the following, but this is how I currently understand things, I am sure that if I am wrong I will be corrected swiftly.

We know that the Holy Father actually holds three offices.

As Pope he is the Head of the Universal Catholic Church.

As Patriarch of the West, he is the Head of the Latin Catholic Church.

As Bishop of Rome, he is the Head of the Diocese of Rome.

The Holy Father does not always speak while wearing all three hats. Sometimes he just speaks as Bishop of Rome, like allowing altar girls or communion in the hand (which I believe he doesn't allow either one there).

So to tell what hats he is wearing, I look to his audience. In this case his audience is a group of Latin Bishops, if I am not mistaken.

Also, in this case I look at the topic, priestly celibacy, which we know is the discipline of the West, not of the East. And knowing that the Holy Father contiues to call for us in the East to return to our traditions, I do not think he meant for this to be for us.

Does my logic work for you here?

As for how I am doing, I am fine and looking forward to a great Great and Holy Week with a visit to, as my Melkite pastor Fr Ken says, the Holy Land (Pittsburgh)!

Your brother in Christ,
David

Dear David and Catholicos,

I myself would LOVE to believe that the Pope here was speaking only as Head of the Latin Church. I really would .

The Pope actually holds nine offices and Patriarch of the West is certainly one of them.

But you are right, and in the territories where the Eastern Church has its married priests, certainly this doesn't apply to them.

I was just wondering, then , how you think a statement like this MIGHT impact the whole process of married Eastern priests in North America?

Do you think it will harden Latin positions among our Eastern hierarchs in this respect?

And this statement by His Holiness must also be taken with his previous statements about celibacy being part of the very nature and being of the Priesthood.

And he didn't qualify his statements with "Latin Church" either.

Just wanting to stir up some debate. Why should Abdur and "Third Rome" have all the fun . . .

Alex

Alex,

Since the Pope has said that you [ the Eastern Churches ] should return to your traditions, which include the married Priesthood , why should being in North America make any difference ? Your tradition is that of the married priesthood so it should equally apply across the big pond - and here as well.

I can't see this as a big problem -or am I just being terribly naive ?

Dear Angela,

The latter, actually

If we could ever have women bishops, you would have my vote!

(Kidding, David, kidding!)

Alex

Then again, when do the Latin bishops in North America ever really listen to Rome? :p

I don't think there is much to worry about...

Dear all,

I'm somewhat uncomfortable with this whole approach of "parsing" the comments of the Holy Father to ascertain some covert agenda. This for 2 reasons:

1) It gives credence to the mistaken notion that many have - even some Catholics, sadly enough, that the Pope spends his days determinig or making up what will be Catholic belief and practice. This just isn't so. The Holy Father is more a guardian of tradition - he tries to safeguard what already is Church belief/practice. Believe me, I get into a lot of arguments with students over this, esp. feminists, who are convinced the papacy only exists to oppress people and stifle the Spirit.

2) I think we ignore the fact that while being a very holy man, the Pope is human. Infallibility does not imply impeccabilty. Must we hold every little action or offhand word from the Holy Father as a magisterial teaching? Because he uses language imprecisely, as we all do, does that mean some bad will on his part? Aren't we guilty of judging the Pope rashly?

N.B. The Latin church has suffered greatly from all the sexual scandals & allegations of late. (This has impacted even those I know personally) I see no gain to be had from starting arguments between our two great traditions East & West. Please pray for the Church.

May you look forward to the joy of Holy Pascha / Easter.

Benedictine.

[ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Benedictine ]

Alex,

I think those who are looking for reasons to harded their attitudes will find them, no matter what the Pope says.

Best,

Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Dear Benedictine and Sharon,

I'm really not trying to read anything into what the Pope said.

But only insofar as it MAY have something to do with an impact on our Church, which is in union with Rome, but which has a married, as opposed to a celibate, priesthood.

As for what goes on in the Latin Church, I'm sorry but that has really been a blow for which no one is sorrier than myself.

We need to discuss it, we shouldn't hide it.

Otherwise, others will discuss these things for us.

Alex

Dear friends in Christ:

In order for us to have a clearer (or more complete) picture of the Catholic Church's view on this discipline of priestly celibacy, may I invite everyone interested in this timely topic to refer to the following documents/ comments/ opinions starting with Pope Paul VI's
Encyclical "Sacerdotalis Caelibatus" (The Celibacy of the Priest) promulgated on 24 June 1967 (section 17 thereof recognizes the practice of married clergy in the Eastern Churches--Catholic and Orthodox) at:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P6SACERD.HTM

and then Pope John Paul II's continuing catechesis on consecrated life, his latest available catechism was issued in the course of his 15 February 1995 General Audience (paying attention to section 3 thereof) at:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2F295.HTM

then, evaluate a Roman Catholic priest's take on "The Logic of Priestly Celibacy" at:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/PRIESTS/CELIBACY.HTM

and, finally, a Catholic layman's view on "Priestly Celibacy in the Light of Medicine and Psychology" at:

http://www.ewtn.con/library/PRIESTS/CELMDPSY.HTM

Thanks.

Dear Amado,

But what it all comes down to is that the Catholic Church believes a Priest should be celibate.

And I believe it shows that the Pope's statement in favour of priestly celibacy applies to the entire Catholic Church, Particular Churches included and notwithstanding local traditions regarding married priests.

Alex

[ 03-20-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Alex,

I have to agree with the others that it is clear that he was speaking of the Latin Rite, especially the Roman Church. He has made it clear many times that the married priesthood is the Eastern tradition and we should remain with our tradition with no push for latinizing that.

IMO you are looking for folly and a conspiracy theory where, frankly, there is none to be found.