www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization St. Louis Byzantine Catholic Mission

Dear Alice:

I recently said good-bye to my friends at this Forum, but I had a strong feeling this morning to log onto the site.

About our Mission, first the legalities. We are a Mission of the Eparchy of Parma of the Byzantine Catholic Church. Attending Divine Liturgy with us satisfies a Roman Catholic's Sunday obligation. We like to think of the Mass as your obligation, and the Divine Liturgy as your opportunity.

The Divine Liturgy is held on Saturday evening, at 6:30 p.m. and lasts about an hour. There is no formal coffee social meeting or anything like that, but you will be made to feel very welcome.

We meet at the Perpetual Adoration Chapel in the Blessed John XXIII Center, located at 8300 Morganford Road, St. Louis, Missouri. The Center is part of St. Mark's Church. The Adoration Chapel is in the far southwest corner of the complex. Just turn in to the parking lot, go all the way to back, and there is the Adoration Chapel.

I'm a Roman Catholic who moved from Kansas City to St. Louis last summer. I stumbled upon the Mission quite by accident, was welcomed with open arms, and have attended Divine Liturgy ever since then.

The Mission began with around 5 Byzantine Catholic about 20 years ago. We now have about 15 regular members, 10 of whom are Roman Catholic and the other 5 are Byzantine. Lately, we have had about 15 visitors.

The service is in English. Some of the Byzantines want to bring back one or two old Slavonic Songs but that has been met with stonewall opposition. I said if we are going to sing a Slavonic Song, then let's sing a Gaelic song as well. The subject has been dropped.

We do not have a Byzantine priest because we are just a mission. Rather, we have 3 diocesan priests and two Jesuits from St. Louis University who are bi-ritual and rotate the service among themmselves.

At 6:00 p.m., the Scriptural Rosary, the Litany to our Our Lady, and a Novena to St. Therese of Lisieux, the Little Flower, begins and ends by 6:15 p.m. The Divine Liturgy will begin 15 minutes later.

When you walk in, it will be obvious to the regulars that you are a visitor because you will not pick up a prayer book; we have them in a box instead of the pews. A regular will pick up two prayers books for your daughter and you and briefly explain the service. I try to offer to sit with a vistor and walk him or her through the Divine Liturgy, but sometimes I forget to.

What to wear? One of the Byzantines wears a coat and tie, most members dress in business casual or nice blue jeans with a shirt with a collar. Dress comfortably. I would not wear old jeans and a T-Shirt with a picture of Ozzy Osbourne on it.

Oh, directions. Take I-55 north to the Bayless Exit, mile marker 200. Turn left and go north on Bayless one half-mile to the first traffic light. That is the intersection with Morganford Road.

Turn right on Morganford Road, go past one stop light where the Lutheran Church is located, and then you will immediately see St. Mark's on your right. Turn into the parking lot at your first opportunity and go all the way to the back. You will see a lot of cars. Those folks are Roman Catholics attending 6:00 Mass.

I hope this helps. If you have any more questions or need any additional information, send a Reply and I will answer it.

JP

Alice:

If I had read your post more closely, I would have seen that all you are asking is "can you tell me how to get her intouch with you?"

I don't mind giving out my name, address and phone number to the world because if the bad guys are going to get me, that's fine with me.

The best way to get in touch with me is calling me at home at 636-825-0750. I sleep most of the day due to heavy medications (another story) so I may hear the phone ring but not bother to pick it up right away.

Leave a message and I will call you right back.

JP

John,

"The service is in English. Some of the Byzantines want to bring back one or two old Slavonic Songs but that has been met with stonewall opposition. I said if we are going to sing a Slavonic Song, then let's sing a Gaelic song as well. The subject has been dropped."

Well as you are a Roman Catholic guest in their Byzantine Mission you should take it upon yourself to learn a few of thier Slavonic songs. Why do you get a vote anyway? Seems to me it should be up to the five canonical Byzantines, not the ten guests.

I also see you have no problem inserting Latin devotions before Liturgy instead of taking Byzantine None, Vespers or parts thereof, or the Akathist. You maybe attracting people but are you attracting Byzantines and people devoted to the Byzantine tradition or just people who are looking for these particular devotions for whom the Byzantine Liturgy is simply a liturgical novelty?

Fr. Deacon Lance

First, if they don't want me there, I will leave and take my weekly contribution with me. Just have Metropolitan Basil or Bishop John give me the word and I'm gone.

Second, it was Metropolitan Judson who said English should be used. I didn't vote on it. It was decided by the hierarchy of the Byzantine Catholic Church in America in 1999. For those who want to hear a Slavic language, there is a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church up the road. Of course, it is dominated by Ukranian immigrants. By the time they have second or third generation Americans, only a few people will want to attend a non-English service there.

Third, the Scriptural Rosary and the Litany to Our Mother was started by the Byzantines before I ever arrived. I did suggest the Novena to the Little Flower, but only after receiving approval from every Byzantine member. We pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary and to St. Therese. She is the "Greatest Saint of Modern Times" according to Pope John Paul II. She is "a Word of God" according to Pope Pius XI. She's the patron saint of missions. Why would anyone object to a short prayer to the Little Flower?

Folks have to realize that the Eastern European culture is dying and being assimilated into the American culture. Its not a question of Eastern Europe v. Western Europe, its a question of Europe v. America.

Can you imagine visiting prisons for a Divine Liturgy and telling the inmates its in Slavic? Who would attend?

Metropolitan Judson warned people not to wax nostalgic over the old language and the old ways of doing things. Otherwise, the Byzantine Churches will become similar to the Tridentin Rite and the Anglican Use Churches. Just another prayer service authorized to be used in Roman Catholic Churches.

Popes in the past have condemned the idea of abandoning our Catholic cultures for American protestant ones right? Its called Americanism, I beleive it was Bl. Pius IX or one of the Popes before or after him.

I did not know that praying the Scriptual Rosary or the Novena to St. Therese of Lisieux was part of Protestant culture. It will come as a big surprise to them.

Saying the Liturgy in the local language was approved at Vatican II, much to the chagrin of many conservative Catholics.

I spoke with our Pastor this evening who confirmed that the hierarchy of the Byzantine Catholic Church in America has dropped the title of the Ruthenian-Byzantine Catholic Church. We spoke about the BCCA parish in St. Petersburg, FL, named after St. Therese of Lisieux. Starting from scratch with a few retirees, the parish has grown tremendously and even has a grade school and high school.

Father told me this evening that he looked at the parish roster of St. Therese of Lisieux and noted it is predominately families of Irish and Italian descent with children. Thus, the need for the grade school and the high school.

Finally, I am seeing Bishop John next month and will talk about these things with him. I have no doubt that he will confirm that the BCCA is not a Ruthenian Church, but a multi-ethnic American Church which continues to pray the Divine Liturgy, word for word, in English. We are also allowed to pray the Scriptural Rosary and the Novena to St. Therese.

I also have no doubt that he will say St. Therese of Lisieux Byzantine Catholic Church is the model parish for the BCCA.

Before she died, St. Therese said that she would spend her Heaven doing good on Earth. She is making good on her promise as demonstrated by the Church in St. Petersburg, FL. Why then are some people so opposed to her?

I wasn't reffering to that, I was reffering to your earlier comment about gospel music before the Divine Liturgy. Also, wouldn't those things you mentioned be Latinizations?

I was reffering to your "assimilating into American culture". American culture is very anti Catholic and materialistic. Not that I am saying one should live in some sort of ethnic ghetto, but the culture and tradtitions of the Byzantine Church should not become protestantinized like what has happened to the Latin Church in America and that is what the Pope warns us about when he is comndeming Americanism.

As posted under the Town Hall thread, the "Is there still a Ruthenian-Byzantine Catholic Church, or has it become the BCCA?", needs to be reinterated here...

[Being called a "Byzantine Catholic Church of America" and de-emphazing a Rusyn or any other former Austro-Hungarian indigenous Greek Catholic ethnicity and being a "Sui Juris" Eastern Catholic entity means nothing in terms of survival. The "Ruthenian" Byzantine Catholic Church in the US is in rapid decline due to several causes. I clearly see these loses caused by the following:

a.) Lack of hierarchical leadership.

b.) Economic displacement of her faithful away from the originally-established Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic communities.

c.) Apathy of the faithful who do not make a strong commitment to remain Byzantine Catholic and instead assimilate into the Roman Church out of convience.

d.) A lack of proper adult ECF education during the "Americanization" period of the '60's, '70's and'80's. Once the young adults move out of their home parishes, they are not remaining part of their Byzantine Catholic parishes because they were never taught to foster a love for their Byzantine Catholic Church.

These are four main reasons why I believe the "Ruthenian" Byzantine Catholic Church in America is in decline.

I do not believe now or at anytime in the past that remnants of an ethnic culture is to blame. By discontinuing the "Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church" moniker isn't going to instantly stop this decline. The Byzantine Catholic Church in America will only survive if the real reasons of decline are reversed (as mentioned above). Stating that the decline is somehow related to an ethno-centric church culture or ethnic jurisdictional name are not valid resons, IMHO!]

Ungcsertezs

John,

How did we go from one or two songs in Slavonic to the entire Liturgy? You said the Byzantines asked for one or two songs which was stonewalled and this was wrong. On the otherhand, I agree the Liturgy should be in English but that certainly doesn't prevent one from singing a hymn before or after Liturgy in Slavonic or taking one of the hymns in the Liturgy that are repeated like the Trisagion or Cherubic Hymn in Slavonic once.

We are indeed a multi-ethnic American Church, that does not mitigate the fact that we officially have jurisdiction over Byzantine Catholics who immigrated from Mukachevo, Presov, Hadudorog, and Krisevci (including Rusyns, Slovaks, Hungarians, and Croats) and there descendants as well as anyone else who has canonically joined our Church. And no matter what we call ourselves one can confirm that the Holy See considers us a Ruthenian Church by checking the Annuario Pontifical.

Fr. Deacon Lance

I agree. there is nothing wrong with Slavonic hymns in a historically Slavonic church. no more than a Lutheran church using traditional German hymns. as far as Americanism is concerned. lwet it be remembered that the first Christians in America were Catholics. but as far as vilifying Protestantism is concerned, Protestantism would be a marked improvement to the materialist and humanist culture that permaetes America, such as which has no regard for Christian values, whether they spring from a Catholic, Protestant, Anglican, Orthodox, or Oriental source.
Much Love,
Jonn

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Greetings U-C!
I thought I might comment on a couple of these points.
Very true! A huge reason, it is a reality of the modern North American situation. Ruthenians migrating from Slovakia to Spain would have a similar problem.

Of course, it would not nearly be the problem it has turned out to be if the church had not lost so many parishes across the country during the Toth era. But that is water under the bridge, I guess.
Very good points. Ruthenian Catholics seem to have developed a 'relativistic' attitude toward all Catholicism. It is still touted here on the board as a good thing, and I would not necessarily disagree, but a side effect is just as you explain it. To paraphrase: "if all Catholic traditions are equally valid what does it matter?". This is what you get, a Catholic melting pot, the Byzantine Ruthenian church is 'melting' like an ice cube in a big tub of liquid.
Ethnicity is always intimidating to Anglo-Americans. Not much one can do about it.

I think a bigger problem is that Catholics in general (Orthodox too!) are very reluctant to preach the Gospel on the street and where they work. There is a lack of evangelistic ferver.

Now that the base communities are 'melting' there is no great influx of new people.

+T+
Michael

Yes, The "Ruthenian" Byzantine Catholic Church needs to evangelize any people they can reach. But unfortunately, internal or "self-evagelization" is lacking, thus hardly any younger families attending their "family" Byzantine Church but instead just fulfilling their perceived Subday obligation at the nearest Roman parish. This is reality and we must stop this "Coping Out" of the youth to the Roman Church.

Ungcsertezs

And here's why...

Having grown up in the Byzantine Catholic Church during the days of +Nicholas Elko, I can tell you that the overriding emphasis with regard to our catechesis was placed on our Catholicity, our union with Rome, rather than our Orthodoxy. Being the lone BC parish among maybe 30 or so RC parishes, we found ourselves constantly explaining/defending our position within the Church. Couldn't tell you how many times I heard something like "Oh, but you guys don't believe in the pope, right?" or some such; this from fellow Catholics even! We knew who we were, we knew we were Catholic, but our RC brethren did not (many still do not). So, as a defense mechanism, our association with Rome was stressed above all else, even over our own Traditions.

Things were pretty cut-and-dried back then - you were either "Catholic" (like us and the RCs) or "non-Catholic" (like everyone else)... one or the other, no in-between - period. And the Orthodox down the street who shared our very liturgical praxis (albeit without many of the latinizations) were simply "non-Catholics" with whom we didn't align ourselves for fear of betraying our Catholicism. It would have been unheard of for us to attend and participate in an Orthodox DL (except for the occasional wedding or funeral), because they were "non-Catholics," and Catholics who participated in non-Catholic services were automatically excommunicated... or so we were led to believe.

Many, if not most, of my contemporaries grew up in this environment, an environment that intensely stressed the Catholic part of our Byzantine Catholic name. It's only natural that when these folks moved out-of-town or even just across town, they would join the nearest RC parish out of convenience. They were, after all, remaining Catholic, exactly what they had been instructed to do. Little, if any, efforts were expended to get them to return to their "family" Byzantine Church, because, after all, they were still practicing Catholics... and that was more important than being a practicing Byzantine Catholic.

So now they're gone - spread to the winds - comfortably settled into their RC parishes. No doubt many don't even realize that, canonically speaking, they're still Byzantine Catholics. Most by now have had children and grandchildren sacramentally initiated through the Latin Church, beliveing (falsely) that, because of this, these children and grandchildren are now officially Latin Catholics. Many don't know or, by now, don't even care about the precedence of paternal lineage that actually governs an individual's official sui iuris Church affiliation, regardless of which sui iuris Church these sacraments are administered through.

We're now going on three generations removed from the initial exodus away from the Byzantine Catholic Church that occurred during the late 60s, the 70 and the 80s. Remember that, for the most part, these were folks who left out of convenience, not out of any particular dissatisfaction with the BC Church. They, like me, grew up with the instructions that we are all, RC and BC alike, "Catholics" anyway, so it really doesn't matter where you worship - as long as you remain "Catholic," you're O.K.

Perhaps a Metropolia-wide effort to re-connect with and re-catechize these "lost Byzantines" would be in order.

Al (a pilgrim)

This is on the back of our Novena to St. Therese, the Little Flower:

Note: St. Therese, the Little Flower, is the youngest Doctor of the Church, having died when she was only 24 years old. In declaring her a Saint, Pope Pius XI called her �a Word of God�. Pope John Paul II called her �the greatest Saint of modern times�. She is also the patron Saint of Missions. Therefore, it is most appropriate to ask for her intercession on behalf of the St. Louis Byzantine Catholic Mission.

St. Therese of Lisieux is named as the patroness of the Byzantine Catholic Church in America in St. Petersburg, Florida. That parish is in the Eparchy of Passaic. The website is http://www.sttherese-byzantine.com/.

�When asked how the Western saint, St. Therese, came to be called the patroness, it was explained that, at the time a church was planned in this area, there were no Byzantine churches south of New Jersey and this was considered �mission territory!� St. Therese, being the patroness of missions, was chosen to watch over the new parish.� http://www.sttherese-byzantine.com/history.

There are no rules or requirements concerning how or when you should pray this Novena. It is suggested that you pray the Novena once a day.

I strongly advise all Eastern Christians to ask for the Little Flower's intercession as she spends "her heaven doing good on earth." It is a mistake to refuse help from "the greatest Saint of modern times". Rather, I suggest that you ask her to shower your Church with roses. Then you will see her power of evangelization, accomplished through the will of Jesus.

Al,
That post about the emphasis that was put on Catholicism in the past is profound. Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us .
As a newcomer to the Eastern churches - Catholic & Orthodox, I am horrified with what Rome has done with the Byzantine Catholic church!
-Wolfgang