www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Married clergy...where's the money coming from?

This is an extremely interesting topic.

A parish that I attended many years ago asked people to tither the Biblical 10%. The pastor made a promise to the parish - so long as they tithed, he would only offer a homily on stewardship ONCE A YEAR. Otherwise, they would NEVER hear from him on the topic the 51 weeks of the year. It seemed to work! The parish was large, growing and tithing!

Another parish I went to (again years ago in another city) embraced this ridiculous "Faith in Our Future" campaign. For a full year, ALL we heard about was $$$...every Sunday. Some people actually left the parish until the campaign was done.

As to the married priesthood, I have always thought that, given the size of our Eastern parishes, that having a few priests and deacons in each parish - with perhaps the pastor as a celibate in the rectory and the other priests being gainfully employed outside of the parish and in non-stipendary roles, depending on the parish budget. I once met a Romanian Orthodox priest who was completing his MA in Human Resources. He was employed as an HR Manager (a priestly role, let me tell you!) and ministered to a very, very small parish. Why not have worker priests? So long as their employment was stable and would not create scandal (owning a movie theater) would be an example.

Just a thought...

Gordo

We know where the money comes from its called Tithing a thing which I try to do faitfully and give example to the parishoners.
Stephanos I

THAT's a great idea. Again, I do think people will generally pay when the necesity is (well!) explained to them.

I think many have no idea what it costs to keep the Church doors open and would be surprised at just how expensive it is.

I was listening to an archived interview with UGCC Bishop Richard Seminack, Eparchy of St. Nicolas that took place this week during a Catholic Answers broadcast on EWTN radio.

I may have misheard, but his Grace mentioned that many of his priests take positions as chaplains (in hospitals?) for additional income. That would certainly seem to be a logical means of employment for them.

Bishop Seminack came across as a very humble, down-to-earth Shepard. Find the interview here, 7-19-2006, on the calendar:

http://www.catholic.com/radio/calendar.php

Peace

It's got to be coming from somewhere, because off the top of my head I can only think of two parishes where the parish priest is an Archimandrite. I would assume a lot of this depends on the parish itself. The makeup of the congregation, the geographic location and so on. A parish in a depressed industrial area with an older congregation (i.e. people on fixed incomes) is not going to be able to support a priest and his family like a younger suburban parish.

The parishes around me that I know of for the most part support their priest and his family without them having to supplement their income. I also know of a few who teach in addition to their parish duties, and I know some whose wife have full or part time jobs. I also know of one semi-retired priest who runs a business from his home, but I can't what it is.

Andrew

A lot of good ideas are present here, particularly tithing and actually listing what the money is needed for. In an age of "seeing is believing" this will open alot of peoples' eyes.

*Takes mental notes for later*

Hi,

This is the thing about Stewardship:

It is about Time, Talent and Treasure.

If you focus only on Treasure, parishoners get bored and stop giving, eventually they might even go away.

If you start with Time and Talent, that is, with making sure that people understand their call to discipleship implies more than heating up the pew for an hour on Sunday, they will become actively involved in the life of the parish and in one way or another, they will experience first hand how the budget impacts what they are able (or not able) to do.

Then money should start flowing naturally, as people understand that they are contributing not to some distant charity, but to their very ministries.

And yes, this should include enough compensation so that Father (and family) can make a decent (and modest) living.

It is not if or how much should we talk about money. It is WHEN.

If you are talking money only when you have a specific need, then the most you can expect is to fulfill the need, and even then you'd be lucky. Capital campaigns might get you a new parking lot, but they oftentimes leave the parish community motivationaly spent.

Good Stewardship theology is not about what the parking lot needs, it is about what the disciple of Jesus Christ needs to do to respond to the Grace he or she has received from the Lord.

Shalom,
Memo

Please help me out here. I am dying to learn where it is written that if a parish priest is married, the parish must support the entire family.

I know more celibate than married priests, but every presbytera I know or have met has a day job, just like most moms these days. In addition the priests also have other 'jobs', ranging from part-time (chaplaincies and the like) to full-time secular work.

Where do folk get the idea that presbytera must (is entitled to?) sit at home doing nothing while the parish supports the family?

It won't be until people get this silly idea out of their heads that parishes (and hierarchs) will be more open to married clergy.

Kobzar, I think I look at some of these issues differently. When you said

I have never heard this said, but by the same token I can't see why in the world a parish wouldn't provide for both its priest and his family. The Pani/Presvytera/Khouria in my experience is not just someone along for the ride, but typically has an essential and very active role in the parish. Either as choir director, sunday school teacher, ministry leader, parish mother or as any or all of the above (plus whatever else I'm not thinking of). In my experience the priest's wife is an incredible blessing, and to be honest I have seen them smooth over many situations where the priest on his own may have struggled.

Most imporantly though I think the priest and his family are the model and basis for the parish family. The highest calling many of us can aspire to is to bring children in to the world and raise them in the church. I think if you consider the priest the spiritual father, it only makes sense that the parish would strive to support him.

It has also been my experience that priests make incredible sacrifices for their parishes. When a priest is married and has a family, they share in this sacrifice. I have seen this often.

I have a different perspective on both statements. I believe it is a problem that priests are forced to seek outside work. I think our goal should be to fully support them so they can focus on what they should be doing, caring for their flock. I think it actually is something of a failing and a sad commentary on our churches when we do not fully support the priests.

Secondly, I believe there is no greater job than the care of children. I think the fact that a Pani or Presvytera must work is a problem (if they choose to do so, I can respect that however). When we had children my wife and I decided it would be best for her to stay home. It's hard, but I think it was the right choice. One thing I know she is not doing is just "sitting home". It is hard work.

I'm guessing you mean this as an issue in the Catholic Church, so I can't really comment on that.

Personally, because married priests are the norm for us, I think the idea people should get out of their heads is the one that they give enough to the church. None of us do. Our goal in my opinion should be to provide for the priest and his family.

Andrew

Thus sayeth the Lord, and St. Paul, too:

"The laborer is worthy of his hire."

Hi,

I don't think anyone has said that it HAS to be that way, but what is the Church supposed to do if a married priest is unable to otherwise provide for his family? Just say "tough" and look the other way?

What would you think if you had an emergency and when called the parish center asking for Father, you found out he's not there, not because he's dealing with some other emergency (which happens with celibate priests, of course), but because he's in a meeting firing someone or cleaning an office or flipping burgers or selling ties and boxers at the local department store?

If you're already getting into the trouble of ordaining a married man, wouldn't you want to have him significanly more actually available for ministry than a lay person?

Married Deacons have their priorities more or less laid out: Family then work then ministry.

I do not think the ministry of a priest should be his third priority and I do not think it would be fair for the priest to loose his job because he is a committed minister.

Unfortunately I do not think we live in such a world that the marketplace would understand that a priest with a secular job will surely need time off for emergencies much more frequently than a lay person.

Shalom,
Memo

If the people of a place can't afford to have a priest I suppose he has not choice to move on. Can't have his family with no food on the table or the electricity unpaid. I know that a few priests work (or have done) in schools as teachers or chaplains. The money matter is a problem but one that is not insurmountable.

Have you seen the costs of day care? When adding in the taxes, the increased need of convenience foods, the increased clothing bill, the increased gasoline bill, the increased dry cleaning bill, the increased frustrations in the home life due to both parents being out of the home working all day, it might just add up to be more economical for the Pani to stay at home and do nothing all day.

When considering the benefit of time spent in house cleaning, food preparation, telephone and in-person counseling, parish planning, child rearing, and in making her husband's life less stressful, it might just add up to be in the parish's best favor for the Pani to stay at home and work all day.

Where do folk get the idea that women who stay at home do nothing while the husband/parish supports the family?

It won't be until people get this silly idea out of their heads that society (and our government) will be more open to respecting the married vocation.

Wondering:

plaws, plaws, plaws!!!