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Posted By: Angel lady Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/01/06 04:00 PM
I was asked to separate this topic from Holy Trinity's.

http://www.connpost.com/news/ci_3551230

Article on the sale of St. John's property from today's CT Post.
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Posts: 55 | From: Connecticut | Registered: Nov 2005 | IP: Logged | ttp.//www.connpost.com/news/ci3551
Dear Angel Lady,

Everytime I try to access the link, I get a page cannot be found. I wonder if my IP is being blocked from that server. Could you be kind enough to copy/paste the article if copyright laws permit this?

Thank you.

In Christ,

Michael
Posted By: Ray S. Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/01/06 06:05 PM
Here is part of the article in question:
Quote
TRUMBULL � Thirty-five age-restricted housing units are proposed for property located next to St. John Byzantine Church.
Angelo Melisi has submitted an application to the Inland Wetlands Commission, which will conduct a hearing at 7:30 p.m. March 7 in Town Hall.

The proposal covers 32 acres at 100 St. John's Drive, with 9.24 acres of the site classified as wetlands.

In addition to wetlands board approval, the project also needs a zone change, a resubdivision and a special permit from the Planning and Zoning Commission.

Under existing zoning regulations, age-restricted housing zones must be located on a state highway. The regulation, however, does not require access to that state highway.

The rear of the property on St. John's Drive borders Route 8.
Posted By: Job Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/01/06 06:50 PM
To me the real interesting item is that St. John's is getting $2+ million. The property that we are discussing is worth over $7 million. This "deal" sounds good until you begin to scratch the surface. This actually seems right on course with the Other closings and property selling His Grace Andrew has been involved with (Eparchies of Passaic and Parma). Don't I recall that the property sold in FL with the Holy Apostles closure was, so we have been told, sold way under market value. I understand property from Holy Ghost in Philadelphia (although they are still open) was sold as well as way under market value. It continues to raise alot of questions regarding the handling of finances within the Passaic Eparchy.
Posted By: Cathy Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/01/06 07:22 PM
Now Job, watch what you say or you're going to get this thread deleted!
The Inland Wetland Commission of Trumbull CT met last night to discuss application 06-04 for St John Woods. The meeting was attended by over 100 concerned neighbors & parishioners of St Johns Church. During the rather heated discussion they were shocked to learn that Fr. George Malitz is the one who approached the developer & told him that we would be interested in selling some of our property. The acerage mentioned by the Commission was 22 not the 15 Fr. Malitz keeps referring to. So how much of the property is actually being sold?
We, the parishoners, are not interested in selling our property to a developer! Fr. Malitz has been lying to his parishoners for months just like he lied to the parishoners of Holy Trinity. After several impassioned pleas from the gallery, the Commission motioned for a continuance so they can further review the site.
I also found it interesting that several of the neighbors commented that St Johns Church is in financial trouble. Since Fr. Malitz has not provided the parishoners with a financial statement for the past 2 years we really wouldn't know. Looks like JOB has a valid point.
Posted By: Job Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/08/06 04:05 PM
Thank You Angel Lady for the update!

Quote
During the rather heated discussion they were shocked to learn that Fr. George Malitz is the one who approached the developer & told him that we would be interested in selling some of our property. The acerage mentioned by the Commission was 22 not the 15 Fr. Malitz keeps referring to. So how much of the property is actually being sold?
It saddens me that people are still "shocked" to see this type of behavior. Anyone who followed the Holy Trinity closure which occured in their backyard should see what's coming. Fr. George, et al continue to throw out conflicting information (22 acres/15 acres/31 acres etc...(I don't believe St. John's even has 31 acres)) My understanding is the parishioners were originally told 2 weeks ago that as part of the plan the builder was building the new rectory, hooking it up to sewars, and paving the new parking lot. My understanding, although I have not seen it myself, but have heard the same thing from several who have seen it, was the "story" of the building a new rectory as part of the deal is just that. A story! The bulletin this week said the rectory is being built "at cost" (whatever that means). $2.1 million subtract out the eparchy piece (I believe 8%) build a new rectory, a new parking lot, and a new bell tower and that money is going to be wasted quickly. (I only have to wonder if the money will bring back Fr. George's wish for a marble floor in the sanctuary.)
Posted By: sam Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/08/06 09:58 PM
I've come to the conclusion that we the people of the eparchy of Passaic will never hear the truth in these matters.
It is our responsibility to put our money in the envelopes, generate money through fundraising, give more money to the "Stewardship Appeal"- (oh wait- it isn't called "Stewardship" anymore is it?) and in general keep giving money whenever it is asked of us.
In return we get a glimpse of a promise of Eternal Life IF we follow the rules to the letter and don't cause much grief, and IF we stay faithful until the day our particular parish gets sold out from under our noses. After that we are no longer the eparchy's body in the pew. If we choose to start again somewhere else we may again catch that glimpse of Eternal Life. If we choose not to we are probably considered damned to Hell.
Can't win, can we?
Sam
Posted By: Basil Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/09/06 01:51 AM
It's a sin. Nobody can do anything about it.
Posted By: Job Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/09/06 08:31 PM
It is a real shame...that scandal continues to be brought upon the Church and it is pretty clear there is no remorse for what is being done. There was no remorse about the closure of HT...if there was What is now going on 20 miles away wouldn't be happening...
Very true however these guys don't seem to play by the rules. How many Canon Laws were broken when Holy Trinity was closed?
Posted By: Job Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/15/06 10:07 AM
I don't believe (and I definitely am not a canon law scholar) any letter's of the law were violated. The eparchy is run by canon lawyers and live by the letter of the law. Unfortunately, not by the spirit of the law. It is more of a moral issue than a legal one. Canon Law, as I have looked at it, appears to be geared toward protecting the bishop. For as much as we hear the Church being "the people" under the guidance and spiritual direction of the bishop, reality doesn't make that so. At least from what I have looked at, and others I have spoken with who have better knowledge of Canon Law, the church rhetoric is often "flowery" toward the laity, the Roman Curia even has a congregation for the laity, but when push comes to shove the bishop can do whatever he pleases and there is no recourse. It is more powerful than being a Supreme Court Justice since it is one person with absolute power. The bishop is an appointment for life (we often hear about mandatory retirement at 75 but my understanding is that does not apply to Eastern Bishops (I think there is discussion on that but we can see bishop Andrew is now 80 and still doing what he was doing 20 years ago in Parma)).
Posted By: Job Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/15/06 10:16 AM
I almost forgot...Basil, good luck on your journey as you begin your new life with the OCA!!!! It warms my heart when I see former parishioners associated with Holy Trinity and St. John's in CT formally, make the move back to the Holy Orthodox Church and enter communion with them. And not lean toward the RCC. I believe you know as I do, we are at a crossroads. Do we take the path of least resistance and make the "Catholic" choice and go to the RCC? or Do we remain faithful to the eastern church and go Orthodox? I personally believe you have made the right choice.
I dont agree with comments about teh bishops. If you are convinced that the bishops is not doing the business of the Eparchy as he should then bombard the Cardinal Prefect for the Oriental Church in Rome. Provide him with facts of what you conside has been doen wrong. However, one or two complaints will not get anything done but if many people all complain, they will get the idea that all is not well in the Eparchy.

A few years ago I met an Australian Monsignor from Rome, who mentioned that 'Rome' was getting worried about the volume of letters arriving daily from Australia complaining about the bishops. JPII men were moved into the vacancies and it was not easy, as those who had become powerful were not going easily. They fought back evey inch of the way. However Pope's men have been put into key positions and the volume of complaints has died down to a trickle.

You do have recourse to a higher place. Just get organised to do this and keep at it.

ICXC
NIKA
Posted By: Job Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/15/06 12:02 PM
Quote
If you are convinced that the bishops is not doing the business of the Eparchy as he should then bombard the Cardinal Prefect for the Oriental Church in Rome. Provide him with facts of what you conside has been doen wrong. However, one or two complaints will not get anything done but if many people all complain, they will get the idea that all is not well in the Eparchy.
I can appreciate what you are saying Pavel...But I can tell you this...from the Holy Trinity issue alone Rome received (I have copies of these correspondances) approximately 1" thick package of letters that over time (approximately 1 1/2 years) had been sent to the bishop himself, his college of consultors, the papal nuncio, Other eastern catholic bishops in America etc...these packages of various letters outlining the specifics of the situation did go to the Oriental Congregation, and other various members of the Roman Curia (Cardinal Ratzinger and JP2 as well)...I have been told by a good source that Rome requested that Andrew submit his resignation since he was well past 75 and it could be done without scandal...Bishop Andrew Refused and is still there. So they have been well in the loop on what is going on...unfortunately, my take on it is An Eastern Bishop is head of his Church and regardless of how much pressure Rome puts on him, he can do as he pleases and can not be forcefully removed from his church...That being said...I agree with that from an Eastern perspective...the problem here is that the bishops are imposed by Rome...which gives the appearance that they are doing what Rome wants...if we were to really take an eastern stance then the bishop would be elected by his clergy (what priest would elect (for lack of a better word) a tyrant for his boss)and we know in the canons of the Orthodox Church a synod is able to remove a bishop who has brought scandal upon the church. This type of scandal has gone on for approximately 20 years. I remember, when Bishop Andrew was in the eparchy of Parma it even reached the ABC Evening News...if that and the 15 years or so of scandal after that did not constitute 'scandal' I don't know what would.

All of this being said...I would encourage the members of St. John's in Trumbull, CT, Resurrection in Smithtown, NY and St. Andrew's in Westbury, NY and any other parish to continue writing to Rome. The pressure couldn't hurt.
The deluge should keep flowing towards Rome without let up. Lots of people need to be writting lots of letters.

ICXC
NIKA
Oh the target should be the one Cardinal Prefect who deals with the Eastern Churches and not everyone who moves in a cassock. In case anyone is wondering who it is HB Patriarch Ignatius Mousa I Daud. It is no good sending letters to the tea lady in the Vatican, target the right person and get the mail rolling in by the bag load. Happy mailing!

ICXC
NIKA
That's a shame, "doxing out" to the OCA. Personally, I would opted for one of the numerous ACROD parishes. At least in those parishes you will hear Subcarpathian Prostopinije. I couldn't give up hearing my native indigenous liturgical music tradition. The OCA music is just to bland for my taste. But then again, I'm not in the "fire sale" eparchy of Passaic.

Ungcsertezs (give me Prostopinije or give me death!)
Posted By: Basil Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/15/06 03:27 PM
Dear Ung,

I met with all 4 of the ACROD priests in the area. It was my first choice. Unfortunately they are not where we want to be. I have great joy and respect for Metropolitan Nicholas. As I looked at all the Orthodox Churches in the area it was hard to find a home. However, I am settling in with a local OCA church and my family and I are happy.

Basil
http://www.connpost.com/news/ci_3611618

This article appeared in today's paper.
Thank God for the neighbors!
Posted By: AMM Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 03/17/06 04:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Basil:
Dear Ung,

I met with all 4 of the ACROD priests in the area. It was my first choice. Unfortunately they are not where we want to be. I have great joy and respect for Metropolitan Nicholas. As I looked at all the Orthodox Churches in the area it was hard to find a home. However, I am settling in with a local OCA church and my family and I are happy.

Basil
May God grant you and your family many years Basil!

Andrew
For those of you who care the Inland Wetland Commission of Trumbull meets tonight to continue the Public Hearing on the proposal to build age restricted cluster housing on the St John's property. Opposition to this project has been intensifying throughout the community & the parish. Stay tuned!
Posted By: sam Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 04/04/06 07:54 PM
[QUOT Opposition to this project has been intensifying throughout the community & the parish. Stay tuned! [/QUOTE]

Is the sale a done deal or is it contingent on zoning approval?

Prayers.
Sam
Posted By: Job Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 04/04/06 08:39 PM
I believe it is contingent on zoning...
It has to get thru wetlands first then onto Planning & Zoning. Another option is to sell it to the town for Open Space. I don't know if any offers are on the table but the interest is there.
Does anyone know of an address in Rome that we can send our letters to
HB Cardinal Patriarch Ignace Moussa 1 Daoud
Congregazione per le Chiese Oriental
Via della Conciliazione 34,
00193 Roma,
Italy

Good letter writting!

ICXC
NIKA
Posted By: Basil Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 04/05/06 11:33 PM
Cardinal Daoud didn't respond to the Holy Trinty Closure, why should he respond to this? My recomendation is to make the Apostolic Nuncio aware also.
How organised was the deluge of mail from the USA to Rome. Well We have Cardinal George Pell and a host of other bishops down here because Rome got very worried by the volume of mail coming from Australia each day complaining about the bishops and what they were getting up to.

ICXC
NIKA
Posted By: sam Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 04/07/06 01:03 AM
Quote
Rome got very worried by the volume of mail coming from Australia each day
Sadly, this is the reason we WON'T be heard.
Even if every parishioner in the Eparchy of Passaic wrote a letter it would still be the equivalent of just one or two large RC parishes in one large US city.
I don't believe our bishops get heard in Rome, let alone our people.
Sam
The Eparchy of Passaic is doing something right in St. Petersburg, FL, or more likely, the credit belongs to Heaven. Starting from scratch, the Byzantine parish there has a new church, pre-school, grade school, and high school.

The administrator of the St. Louis Mission looked at the church roster, and told me the majority of the members are young families of Irish and Italian descent.

A few more parishes like this will get Rome's attention.
Posted By: sam Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 04/07/06 12:11 PM
JP,
I may be mistaken, but I believe the Immaculata School uses the Byzantine Catholic church facilities and attends Liturgy, but in all ways it is a Traditional Roman Catholic private school. I believe the school is not under the jurisdiction of the Eparchy of Passaic.
Sam
Just to underscore Sam's comments. The School of the Immaculata is a private and independent school. As such, the school's curriculum is not subject to review by the local Roman Ordinary nor by the Eparch of Passaic. The school follows a Roman Catholic theology curriculum (Faith and Life series published by Ignatius Press and CUF). This is aventure by parents who take their vocation as the primary educators of their children quite seriously.

Sorry to move off topic.
Would some kind soul please post the name and address of the current nuncio for the U.S.?

Eli
I also apologize for being off topic, but as you can see here
http://www.sttherese-byzantine.com/april_2_bulletin

St. Therese Church embraces such Roman Catholic practices as Divine Liturgy on Lenten Weekdays. The only day the Presanctified Liturgy is held is on Wednesdays. frown
smile

Looks like a Sunday Divine Liturgy in anticipation Saturday afternoon as well. Vespers is not mentioned, nor Orthros/Matins.

I think this is almost universal in the Ruthenian metropolia of Pittsburgh. It must have been this way for many many years.
Lets get back to the topic at hand please which is the sale of the St John's property for developement of an age restricted community.

I am happy to report that the number of parishoners who are against the sale is growing. Unfortunately there are only a few who are willing to voice their opinion. Hopefully that will change.

The following is a quick recap of last week's Wetland Meeting.

The developer presented updates to their plans based on questions and requests from Commissioners at the March hearing. While some of the questions were answered, several remained unresolved. The developer also brought an environmental consultant.

"Save Nichols", the group challenging the developer's plans, responded with an attorney, Joel Green and an expert witness/Soil Scientist/Environmentalist, Aleksandra Moch. Together, they challenged the adequacy of the developer's plans. Their testimony ranged from issues on the handling of storm water to a broadened definition of what the Wetlands Commission should consider in their deliberations.

Near the end of the hearing the applicant requested a 30 day continuation.
While most of us felt that the Commission should have denied the application based on the lack of requested information, the Commission decided to grant the request.

The developer has a new list of items (some are carryovers from the last
meeting) to prepare for the next meeting.

We will send out additonal information regarding the next meeting as dates
and times are confirmed. Thanks for you continued support.
Posted By: djs Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 04/10/06 04:38 PM
Dear Angel Lady,
One thing that has not been detailed on this thread, that you might like to clue us in on is this: what is the actual basis of the opposition to the sale?
Why would we oppose the sale of the property?

The parishioners were told that a "few acres" that they don't use might be sold when in actuality it is a majority of the property that is up for sale leaving approximately 4.2 acres of which 2.5 is parking lot.
The parishioners were never consulted.
The land in question is a small portion of an existing wetland. Building on this land would severely damage the ecosystem. It is not good for the environment, period.
The construction of the road & homes would aggravate water problems for the homes in the neighborhood. Who knows what problems it might cause for the parish.
Adding the additional access road is a safety hazard for the adjacent Little League Field.

This is land that should be preserved.

The pastor seems to think that this is a good move for the parish since he doesn't forsee any growth in the future. He needs to open his eyes & realize that he is the real problem & should have been transfered months ago.
Posted By: Job Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 04/11/06 03:34 PM
Quote
Junior Member
Member # 2849

posted 04-07-2006 04:15 PM
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Would some kind soul please post the name and address of the current nuncio for the U.S.?

Eli
I am only to get on approximately once or twice a week now that I can't access this forum from my home PC. I thought this information had been posted? I don't understand why something like Cardinal Daoud's contact information should be something that would get pulled down?
Posted By: Job Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 04/11/06 03:39 PM
Sorry my mistake...I see Cardinal Daoud's information on Page 2. Make sure to get copies of all the letters that are sent. If there is no response or acknowledgement even of the letters which were sent I would suggest sending the letters a complete package to the Holy Father. It may sound strange, but Holy Trinity was not able to utilize its hall until that package of letters was sent to JPII. Whether, he or anyone in his office actually saw them is another story, but just the fact that others saw this package was going to him may have stirred up some action.
It is pity to hear of parish that is so far behind as that parish of saint Teresa in America. I thought it was bad enough with the 'Prussian' altar servers in the photos with their latinised extra short stikars and cassocks eek . The gloves were a real turn off. That is pre Vatican II extremism at it's worst eek . Liturgy on weekdays in Great Lent...where have they been over teh past 40 years!!!! eek

We pray for them. cool

ICXC
NIKA
Posted By: djs Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 04/12/06 04:10 AM
Pavel, is your post meant in jest? Your offer of prayers is so evocative of the Pharisee's. This is not your parish, nor even a parish of your particular church; please spare us your expressions of pity.
Yes it was hard on the kids and not fair, they are not to blame for this mess. They are clearly dedicated to what they do and no doubt they do it well.

Someone is responsible for this and it just goes to prove there is not much in the line of supervision for the clergy by bishops or deans to allow for such a wide variation in observance.

As for whose parish it is is of no consequence. This is on the net as if it is normal Byzantine when clearly is is not and whats more you know as well as I do that this should have gone the way of all uniatisms ages ago.

ICXC
NIKA
Hello! The P&Z meeting scheduled for Wed. April 26th has been moved to Frenchtown Elementary School in anticipation of a large crowd.
LET'S NOT DISAPPOINT!
Hello! The P&Z meeting scheduled for Wed. April 26th has been moved to Frenchtown Elementary School in anticipation of a large crowd.
LET'S NOT DISAPPOINT! Come & let your voice be heard where it counts.
Last night's P&Z meeting was well attended. Once again a continuance was granted to the petitioner because there was not enough time for a rebuttal. This angered the crowd of approximately 100.
Angel Lady -

Can you please explain both the purpose of the meeting and what actually transpired?

Thank you!
Good morning. There is a application before the Trumbull Inland Wetland Commission & the Planning & Zoning Commission to build 39 age restricted housing units in a residential area. A majority of the land currently belongs to St. John the Baptist Byzantine Catholic Church but will be sold to the developer if the Boards approve the applications. The neighbors & many of the parishoners are opposed to the sale for many reasons but mostly for the enviornmental impact the development will have on the neighborhood. Check out the postings under "Update on the closing of Holy Trinity" for the connection between the 2 parishes. There are too many unanswered questions.
The day has finally arrived: After months of deliberation the Trumbull Inland Wetland Commission is scheduled to vote tonight on the application for St. John Woods. I'm sure both sides will be ready to appeal the decision which means this could be in court for months. Of course the parishioners have not been apprized of the results of any of the previous meetings but they can read the results in Thursday's paper.

As a aside, Holy Trinity Church was recently sold for an undisclosed amount. What's the going price for betrayal these days??????
Posted By: John K Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 07/11/06 07:09 PM
Was the Holy Table and Iconostas removed from Holy Trinity? Any idea what became of them?
Posted By: Job Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 07/12/06 10:10 AM
My understanding is the Holy Table, icon screen and mosaics had all been removed from Holy Trinity prior to the sale.

What has been done with them? I have no way of knowing. Based on the closure of other properties these types of items tend to end up in a basement somewhere unless or until a parish is in need of it. My understanding is the old icon screen from St. John's on Mill Hill Avenue in Bridgeport,CT made a reappearance in a parish down in NJ. And the old moveable icon screen at the Trumbull property, from when space was shared as a church and a hall, appeared at St. Nicholas in Trenton, NJ prior to it's closure.
Posted By: John K Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 07/12/06 11:25 AM
Hopefully the Screen and Holy Table ended up in a parish that had no screen and needed one.
Posted By: Ray S. Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 07/12/06 12:45 PM
I know a small Church (Chapel) in Florida that could use the Holy Table and Icon Screen.
The Icon screen Job mentioned originally belonged to St Johns on Arctic St. NOT Mill Hill Ave.in Bridgeport & it does indeed grace the altar of a church in NJ. I have no idea what happened to the items that were removed from Holy Trinity except for the bell which is currently in Ohio being refurbished along with the bell from St Johns & 2 other bells.
I just received word that the Wetland Commission approved the application of St John Woods with stipulations & modifications.
Posted By: John K Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 07/12/06 04:17 PM
Yes--the floor to ceiling Iconostas from the old St. John's on Arctic St. in Bridgeport is indeed at Nativity of Lord in East Brunswick, NJ.

Hopefully, the sale of the additional land on the new St. John's property can be seen as a positive. Maybe some/many of the residents of the new adult community that is proposed to be built there will join St. John's since it is so close. After all, "cat-lick is cat-lick!" wink
Posted By: Job Re: Sale of property: St John's Trumbull CT - 07/12/06 08:06 PM
Quote
The Icon screen Job mentioned originally belonged to St Johns on Arctic St. NOT Mill Hill Ave.
Sorry...yes you are right...with ACROD 6 months and it already seems like that's where I have always been...

Chris
CHALK ONE UP FOR THE GOOD GUYS!!!!!
Very early this morning the Trumbull Planning & Zoning Commission voted to deny the application for age restricted housing proposed on the St. John's property. The vote was 3-1 with 1 abstention.
Stay tuned! I'm sure there's a Plan B waiting in the wings!
This is the link to the article in today's CT Post concerning the St John's property.
http://www.connpost.com/news/ci_4271608
Bishop William is visiting St. John's Parish this weekend. Hopefully he brings some good news concerning our future. The sale of the property has been on hold for quite some time now.
Father George left the parish about a yesr ago & we have been without a permanent pastor since. Fr. Harry Untereiner has been offering our Liturgies until he was taken ill during Christmas week.
I was present at DL on Saturday and his Grace did mention that he is not pursuing the sale of the property and he wants to build up St. John's again.

We are getting a new priest next week, straight out of seminary.


The Parishoners of St Johns met their new pastor, Father Frank Hanincek, this weekend. I'm happy to say that there were over 100 people in attendance at Sunday's Liturgy. Father Harry, who had been our admininistrator until he was taken ill just before Christmas, accompanied him this weekend so we also had the opportunity to say goodbye & wish him well on his new assignment. The parishoners are thankful to have a full time priest once again & look forward to working with Father Frank to resurrect St Johns.
Agreed. Many Years to Father Frank!
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