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My congregation has been using the Group VBS kits for over a decade. For this year's "Kingdom Rock" Group recommended creating a series of archways to resemble a castle hall.

A Deacon suggested making a very wide archway in the center so as to allow easy access and view of the Sanctuary, and to position two of the side arches to allow a view of the Lectern and Pulpit.

And yours truly then decided to take it to the next level...

Is the text of that conversation online?

Yes, if you Google, "Martin Luther and Eastern Christianity" a number of sources will come up and I originally read what I wrote here on the basis of one of those sources.

Alex

Ah, Alex my ecumenical friend.
What you have perhaps not realized is that if you deny the Pope is the anti-christ you are no longer a Lutheran, that is what my good friend from the Missouri Synod informs me.


Much as I respect my traditional missouri lutheran friend for his invaluable priceless liturgical work, I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a Lutheran symbol of any sort. I too admire certain liturgical music and preservation of particular pre-reformation elements, but to say the Pope is the anti-christ is evil.

Dear Xristoforos,

You raise an interesting point!

First of all, not all Lutherans believe that the Pope is the anti-Christ. The Missouri Synod does do that as a matter of policy, but not other synods.

Given the historical circumstances in which this evolved, it really isn't surprising that Lutherans came to believe this. The popes in Luther's time tended not to be the very best of church leaders, let alone Christians.

Let's not forget that a great Catholic servant of God, venerated in Florence and the Dominican Order as a saint, Il Beato Fra Girolamo Savonarola, had issues with Pope Alexander VI and even started a petition addressed to the European rulers to force Alexander to abdicate (which hastened Savonarola's demise). Hopefully, one day all Lutherans will not only drop that calumny against the Bishop of Rome, but will also come into full communion with the Bishop of Rome.

Our Lutheran friend here belongs to a traditional Lutheran movement which has as its goals the deepening of ministerial spirituality and devotional life as well as an openness to resolve the break with the Bishop of Rome, as they say.

They don't see themselves as constituting another denomination within Christianity, but as a reformed Catholic movement. They prefer to call themselves, "Evangelical Catholic" as a result.

The Lutheran-Catholic movement of rapprochement, "Die Sammlung" or "The Gathering" has also published much about what unites Lutherans and Catholics. There are many Lutherans who are as Catholic as any Catholic Christian, such as our Lutheran friend here.

As for the Luther Rose, there is nothing wrong with it at all. There are Lutherans who are about to enter union with Rome via the Ordinariate (the Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church is one such group) which will keep the Luther Rose, as well as "cultural Lutheranism" afterwards.

Would you suggest that because the Orthodox three-bar Cross is associated with Orthodox who likewise believe the Roman Pope to be an anti-Christ that we shouldn't, as Eastern Catholics, ever use it? Or other similar symbols or saints of the Orthodox Church?

The symbolism of this Rose is meaningful and biblical. As Lutherans restore the broken relationship with Rome, you will be seeing the Rose more and more.

So just please get used to it!

Alex

The 16th Century polemics against the Papacy must be weighed with ¶28 of the Confession of Ausburg (and its Apology) which express a hope for an "evangelical episcopacy", that is, Bishops who are supportive of the doctrine of Justification as set forth in ¶4 of the AC.

The same Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod extremists (and, believe, they are not the majority of the LC-MS) who stir the flames of writings of nearly half a millenia ago are also the very ones who have denounced the 1999 Joint Declaration of the Doctrine of Justification (JDDJ).

I personally consider JDDJ to be either the beginning of the end of the Reformation--or the end of the beginning.

Sorry for this late reply ...

I'm guessing you're thinking of a modern (perhaps Fundamentalist-esque) conception of "the anti-Christ" that didn't exist at the time the Lutherans adopted "The pope is anti-Christ" as one of their beliefs.

Perhaps you should start an anti-Lutheran thread in another subforum. It doesn't seem much like a Photo Gallery topic.