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Mar 25th, 2025
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Dear Henri, Yes, indeed! The Eastern Jesuits are incredible - they really do know more about our Eastern Churches than we do!  The only politics they get involved in these days is with liberation theology in Latin America. But no one's perfect, I suppose . . . Alex
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
But we would probably be horrified at the thought of having Byzantine Ukrainian Jesuits Alex, Not sure if you mean Ukrainians who are Jesuits or Jesuits serving the UGCC; if the latter, you already have it. I believe the acting Vice-Chancellor of the Winnipeg Archeparchy is a young Jesuit priest of Chinese heritage. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Dear Neil,
I just meant that if the Jesuits ever decided to organize an Eastern branch among the Ukrainians, that would probably not go over well with them.
The Ukrainians are a cantankerous lot, you know, very anti-Russian and what not who get upset over the slightest thing.
No, I just don't see a Ukrainian Jesuit Order in Ukraine . . .
I enjoyed reading your posts for the brief time I got to know you here, even though our initial meeting was a bit rocky - and that was entirely my fault.
I ask you to forgive me as well and wish you and your family a Happy Christmas.
Take care and I hope you keep posting your insightful thoughts here for others to learn from.
Alex
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Neil,
I just meant that if the Jesuits ever decided to organize an Eastern branch among the Ukrainians, that would probably not go over well with them.
The Ukrainians are a cantankerous lot, you know, very anti-Russian and what not who get upset over the slightest thing.
No, I just don't see a Ukrainian Jesuit Order in Ukraine . . .
What about Miles Jesu who have set up in Ukraine? How are they viewed? David, the Byzantine Catholic
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Here's a quote from the Kiev-Mohyla Academy website (Kiev spelling is theirs, not mine):
"The original Kiev-Mohyla Academy, founded by the Metropolitan of Kiev Petro Mohyla in 1615, was one of the most distinguished and earliest among higher educational institutions in Eastern Europe. Its aim was to master the intellectual skills and learning of contemporary Europe and to apply them to the improvement of education in Ukraine. Taking his most dangerous adversary as his model, Petro Mohyla adopted the organizational structure, the teaching methods, and the curriculum of the Jesuit schools."
Antrodox
"Phyletism is heritical only to those ethnics in the majority."
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a sinner
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I noticed on the official UGCC website that counted among the religious orders operating in Ukraine are the Salesians of Don Bosco. A wonderful order with a wonderful charism--but I was surprised to learn that there might be Byzantine Salesians!
Also, I discovered recently that a local chapter of Dominican tertiaries counted among their membership a Byzantine priest.
Will wonders never cease?
Martin
Martin
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
But we would probably be horrified at the thought of having Byzantine Ukrainian Jesuits (although I've met one who is Bi-ritual or Bi-ecclesial, take your pick, of Ukrainian background who is now in Ukraine).
Well, there are at least two Polish Jesuits trained for Byzantine Rite: Fr. Mark, who celebrates in both Ukrainian and Romanian (he prepares a doctorate at the Catholic University of Lublin and teaches at the Lviv Theological Academy) and Fr. (Hiero)Deacon Adam, who, inter alia, was serving at my ordination on November 30th. Both mentioned Jesuits are from...Silesia region, i.e. western Poland, definitely closer to the German border than to the Ukrainian one. Sincerely, deacon Peter
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I have read both of Fr. Walter Ciszek's books: With God in Russia -and- He Leadeth Me. (Actually, there are two books that I know of. If anyone knows of any others, please let me know, because I'd love to read them, too.) What is interesting to me is that, in the end, it seems that Fr. Ciszek really did achieve something profoundly beautiful in very ugly places -- he was able to provide Sacraments to people who believed but who wouldn't have had access to them - and I never really got the feeling that he was out to convert Orthodox Russians but, rather, to provide fellow apostolic Christians living under an atheistic regime with those vital spiritual services that he, as a priest, could provide. Originally posted by Irish Melkite: Originally posted by hmjd:
[b]What is the history, both positive and negative, of the Society of Jesus and the East? Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Well, the Jesuits were highly feared and hated by Ukrainians and Russians in history.
The Polish Jesuits especially were always seen as acting as a kind of "religious arm" of the Polish colonial power.
The Polish Jesuits were highly intolerant of the Orthodox in the Polish Kingdom and actively sought ways to make them Catholic - meaning "Latin Catholic."
Even the Union of Brest-Litovsk was often deemed a "partial reunification" of the Orthodox of the Ruthenian Metropolia (including Ukrainians and Belarusyans at the time).
Many believed that the "schismatic rituals" maintained by the "Uniates" had to be tolerated but would be supplanted later on by a full return to the "true Catholic (Latin) Rite."
For Ukrainians and Russians, "Jesuit" is synonymous with "imperialist agent."
Nothing good, in any event.
Alex
Alex is correct in his assessment of the negative Jesuitical influence and the heritage which they left in Ukraine, Russia, and other of the Slav nations and I, personally, would be less kind than he in assessing the role of St. Andrew Bobola, SJ.
The Society also has a less than glorious history with respect to the Church in Ethiopia, where priests of their Portuguese province were involved in conversion and latinization of the Orthodox during the 16th and 17th centuries, as discussed in a recent post here.
However, as Brian notes, much credit must go to their work in the 20th century.
In 1927, HH Pius XI asked the Society to undertake a mission to train clergy for Russia, In response, they established the Russian College in Rome, the Russicum. Subsequently, in 1950, they created the Russian (later Pope John XXIII Eastern Studies) Center at Fordham University. As Brian notes, at various times, they served all of the Byzantine Russian parishes in the US, other than the newly-erected parish in Denver.
Fathers John Ryder, Fionan Brannigan, and Feodor Wilcock, all of blessed memory, each entered into repose during their pastorate of St. Andrew's in El Segundo, successively having served it from 1939 until 1972. Father Wilcock also served in NYC at St. Michael's Byzantine Russian Orthodox Church in Communion with Rome, together with Fathers John Geary, SJ, and Joseph Lombardi, SJ. A Byzantine Jesuit of Italian heritage, whose name now escapes me, succeeded The Right Rev Archimandrite and Mitred Archpriest John Mowatt, as Administrator of Our Lady of Kazan Byzantine Russian chapel in Boston, now suppressed. Father Nicholas Bock, SJ, of blessed memory, founded Our Lady of Fatima Byzantine Russian Catholic parish in San Francisco. More than a dozen members of the Society have served the parish in the 40 years since.
Father Walter Ciszek, S.J.. entered the Society in 1928 and, in 1937, was the first American Jesuit to be ordained in the Russian Byzantine Rite. He was assigned to the Byzantine mission parish in Albertyn in eastern Poland (now Belarus). (In the late 90's, the Belarusian Greek-Catholics of the parish at Grodno erected a cross at Albertyn near Slonim to commemorate the Byzantine Jesuits who served in Albertyn from the mid-20s to early 40s.) In 1941, Father Walter was arrested and sentenced to 15 years hard labor. He spent 5 years in solitary confinement in Lubianka Prison and was then sent to the Siberian slave-labor camps. He was released in 1955 and allowed restricted freedom. He worked in factories while functioning as a priest and, finally, in 1963, was exchanged for a Russian couple who were being held for espionage in the US. He spent the last 20 years of his life serving St. Michael's parish, working at the Fordham Center and with CNEWA, and acting as chaplain to a Byzantine Carmelite convent in PA. On 8 December 1984, he entered into eternal repose at the Fordham Center. After his death, a Cause for Beatification of Father Walter was promoted by the Byzantine Carmelite sisters and formally advanced by the Eparchy of Passaic during the tenure of Bishop Michael. (After his retirement, for reasons that are unclear to me, the Cause was transferred to the Latin Diocese of Allentown.) A website with information on his Cause is at
Father Walter Ciszek Prayer League [cecs.uofs.edu] .
Several Byzantine Jesuits from Boston College have assisted the Mekhitarist Fathers in serving Holy Trinity Armenian Catholic Church in Belmont, MA during recent years.
The Rt Rev Mitred Archpriest and Archimandrite Robert Taft, SJ, is noted for his scholarly research and support of our Churches.
Most Eastern Catholic Jesuits are ordained specifically to the Church which they serve (the current General of the Society of Jesus, in fact, was ordained to the priesthood for the Armenian Catholic Church). Others, ordained to the Latin Church, who later choose to serve in an Eastern Church, receive appropriate bi-ecclesial faculties. (All those ordained to Eastern Churches receive bi-ecclesial faculties in the Latin Church, as membership in the Society requires that.)
Many years,
Neil [/b]
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To better understand the Ruthenian Orthodox Christian view of Jesuits and why the Metropolia of Kyivan-Rus (modern Ukraine)eventually entered into the Union of 1596 I suggest you rent the movie TARAS BULBA at your local video store. This is assuming that you are like me and too lazy to read the book.  The famous Ukrainian writer Hohol (otherwise known as Gogol in Russian cause they can't prohounce "h") wrote a novel about the exploits of a fictious Ruthenian (Ukrainian) Cossack leader or 'Hetman'. The famous novel turned movie (1962) is titled 'TARAS BULBA' and stars Yull Brenner and Tony Curtis. TARAS BULBA is a composite of various Ruthenian Cossack leaders and the turbulent relationship they had with (& within) the Polish (-Lituanian) Commonwealth. After the devastating Mongol raids / invasions of the early 13th century, Kyivan-Rus (modern day Ukraine) fell and the land was partitioned by it's neighboors (Poland and Russia).  The largest single portion of the Rus (Ruthenian) lands fell in the hands of the Polish (-Lithuanian) Commonwealth. The Rus people were subjugated and became part of a brutal feudal-serf ('Panstchyna') system. For over 300 years the Polish rulers tried all manner to assimilate the Orthodox Ruthenian serfs and hierarchy into the Latin rite Catholic Church. Some brave Ruthenian serfs fled the feudal system and settled in the Steppes of what is now mid-central Ukraine. These lands were un-inhabited because of the annual Ottoman Empire (Turkish) attacks from the South on the Ruthenians who tried to colonize this area. These Cossaks (means 'free man' in Turkish) established forts to defend themselves and their Orthodox Christian from all foes (Poles, Turks, etc...). They were highly successful and created the first democratic form of government in Europe (ie; they voted for their leaders - Hetmans). Unfortunately on the 'education front' they could not compete with the Jesuit Latin Catholic schools which were supported (academics) from all of Catholic Europe. In fact, Taras Bulba sends his son to a Jesuit (Latin rite) Catholic school for a superior education. The harsh brutal discipline of the Jesuits is evident in several scenes of the movie.  Their close association with the Polish feudal lords is also depicted. For better or worse, this is the image most Ukrainians have of the Jesuits. Although not mentioned, the main reason the Kyivan Metropolia of the Ruthenians (later Ukrainians) gave for the factual (ie; non fiction) 'Ruthenian Union' of 1596 with the Catholic Church becomes somewhat evident after viewing this movie (ie: disparaging educational systems between ruling Catholic Poles and Cossack Ruthenian Orthodox). See the link for more info: http://faculty.marymt.edu/weyand/filmography/tarasbulba.htm
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Originally posted by Annie_SFO:
I have read both of Fr. Walter Ciszek's books: With God in Russia -and- He Leadeth Me. (Actually, there are two books that I know of. If anyone knows of any others, please let me know, because I'd love to read them, too.) Annie, Those are the only books written by Father Walter of which I'm aware. You may want to double-check at the link below, which I believe lists both his works and biographies of him. (I'd verify it, but my IE is crashing me whenever I go anywhere but here to the Forum  ): Father Walter Books Link [ cecs.uofs.edu] Originally posted by Annie_SFO:
What is interesting to me is that, in the end, it seems that Fr. Ciszek really did achieve something profoundly beautiful in very ugly places -- he was able to provide Sacraments to people who believed but who wouldn't have had access to them - and I never really got the feeling that he was out to convert Orthodox Russians but, rather, to provide fellow apostolic Christians living under an atheistic regime with those vital spiritual services that he, as a priest, could provide. Yes, he, like virtually all of the Catholic and Orthodox clergy who were imprisoned by the Soviets for their Faith and often gave their lives, selflessly served the spiritual needs of their fellow prisoners without regard for the artificial barriers of ecclesial communion that might have prevented them from doing so in other times and places. Memory eternal to Father Walter and to all those of God's servants martyred in the last century under Soviet rule. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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I've really got to recommend the book. It isn't THAT big. It's more of a novella. If anyone takes public transportation to work and wants to read something better than the daily news, it's a great read. Gogol is one of my faves. But I'll admit: I'm a government lawyer. I sometimes see myself in the bureaucrats he portrays - and that makes me try harder! I'll also admit that I actually framed a church bulletin that depicts the icon of the merciless official and put it on my bookcase - and looking at it does make me provide more service with a smile. (Seriously!)
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Dear Friends, On the score of the Jesuits, I just wanted to say that when I said that the East Slavs generally don't have a good opinion of them this was meant only in a historical context, as discussed by Hritzko. The UGCC Patriarch Josef the Confessor was himself trained by Jesuit professors as were other Orthodox hierarchs of Kyiv, as Hritzko mentions. The Byzantine Jesuits in Rome have trained many Eastern Catholic AND Orthodox scholars and their contributions to the field of Byzantine theology are unparalleled - they know more about our Eastern Catholic Churches than we do, if I may make so bold an assertion. And Fr. John Meyendorff (+memory eternal!) would often give his books to Fr. Gustav Weigel, SJ for review and critical comments before publishing them. I understand that, in one instance, Fr. Weigel criticized Fr. Meyendorff for being "too soft" on his "anti-Filioque" position . Our former Jesuit Provincial, who is now in Ukraine, is himself Ukrainian and Bi-ecclesial. I personally don't have a problem with the Jesuits, but there is that sticky historical issue, as Hritzko discussed, that remains. Perhaps it will become less of an issue over time and when people open their eyes to the truly great work the Byzantine Jesuits do for our Churches - which are now also THEIR Churches. Alex
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