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The Pauline rite was designed by 6 protestants and a cardinal whom was later found to be a Freemason. The New Liturgy is a drastic change from the organic development of the Roman Rite as it was before Paul VI (1965, and even the 65 missal was still ok IMO). The 1969 Missal is defecient. I am sure Benedict XVI would express some similar views (mainly the one about the Organic development of the Liturgy) since he wrote an entire book devoted to the subject(Spirit of the Liturgy) and did the Preface in a book about the Organic development of the Roman Rite(the name of this book has slipped my mind). The SSPX is not the only group to hold views like this, there are various priests and religious congregations that all say the Roman Rite is superior to the Pauline one and that there is even an Archbishop from Sri Lanka (whom was recently given a post in the Cong. devoted to the Liturgy in the Vatican) that holds these views as well.

Please forgive me because I have no intention of insulting anyone here.

But this story is so bogus it almost makes me laugh. It's been going around for a long, long time; but I don't believe a word of it.

+T+
Michael

Hesychios,

I think it would be more accurate to say it was written by a Freemason (Bugnini) with the "help" of six Protestant advisors.

Logos Teen

I agree.

I don't care for certain aspects of the "Pauline" rite of the Mass, but I don't accept the various conspiracy theories concerning its development and implementation.

MESSAGE OF APOLOGY TO DIAK

Dearest in Christ DIAK
In the earlier thread in which we both took part in I said to you something which was unfair, wrong and for which I do not excuse myself. I had the cheek to say:
Your internet pen name is not a false name and it has always been a socially accepted medium of written communication in newspapers and now the forum of the Internet.

I withdraw this statement entirely as being quite wrong of me and irreverent towards you.

Such newcomers as I should first make themselves familiar with the rules of internet communication and not barge in as I did.

Father Deacon DIAK, I humbly ask you to forgive me, not on my own merits which I am convinced can obtain me nothing, but only for the sake of Christ who died to save sinners. And I beg to assure your Reverence that I respect your spiritual paternity in the Holy Order of the Diaconate and thank God for you his servant, a man of learning and pastoral zeal for His flock.

Your unworthy servant,
Fr. Michael Mary, C.SS.R.

Dear Diak,
I was watching this forum already for quite long time, before I registered here. I was surprised to see what an orthodox deacon is doing on catholic site...?
You are asking Fr Michael Mary who is his bishop, to which province is he belonging. I want to say that in orthodoxy you also have a lot of different churches (all independent), independent bishop who doing their own things all the time... private teaching on doctrinal level, re-baptizing and re-ordaining people when they are coming from one jurisdictin to the other... etc. Its complete chaos.
I was born in Ukraine, grew up in underground Catholic Church. My great grand father was sent to Vorkuta, where he died for the unity of Holy Church. I cant clearly understand why orthodox can not seek unity. Our Lord said "Ut unum sint" -- "May all will be one". How can we reach unity while doing division...?
Recently I have read certain article on trhe other web forum, where was writen by an orthodox bishop: "We can not reach full union with catholics, while they have Novus Ordo Mass and completely new religion".
I hope that you can reply to my letter and let us try to find ways to full communion here on earth, so that we may have it also in heaven.
In Christ Our Sweetest Saviour,
Ivasyk Telesyk

Dear Ivasyk Telesyk,


This is not really a Catholic Forum - as our Administrator has said many many times - and it has to be admitted we also say it . This is a Byzantine Christian Board where all are welcome in the Spirit of Christ. We do have Orthodox Catholic members [ not in Communion with his Holiness Pope Benedict, ] we do have Orthodox Catholic members [ in Communion with his Holiness ] we have Latin Catholics , we also have Protestant members , we have Members of all faiths here - including many priests and we all get along fine .

Re-union will come - of that we can be sure - but it will be in God's time - not ours

Father, thank you, and let us support each other by prayer, even if we may disagree on the earthly hierarchy. Z'Bohom
FDD

Ivasyk, I am a Greek Catholic deacon, but I appreciate the compliment. We Catholics and Orthodox have to be closer to each other, not farther, for that blessed restoration of full communion. That means many things - liturgically, spiritually, etc. Our fathers who promoted and signed the Union of Brest in 1596 made it clear in the Union they wanted no more than what was handed down by the Greek Fathers, as I have quoted throughout this thread.

The reason I was asking Fr. those questions had little to do with Orthodoxy, they have their own bishops, hierarchy, different jurisdictions, etc. as you say. But they come out and say they belong to a different church, there is no pretense.

My questioning, which was often intemperent, I agree, and for which I ask forgiveness - has more to do with my own understanding of the opposition of Fr, Michael Mary himself and Fr. Kovpak with Patriarch Lubomyr, Vladyka Ihor, etc. I need for myself and our people who may ask me as a cleric to know which bishop these men profess loyalty to while calling themselves Catholic. As you correctly mention it can be chaotic with different jurisdictions running around.

As Anhelyna mentioned, if you look at the opening page of to this Forum, you will see that it is not specifically a Catholic forum - there are many Orthodox posters here and even a couple of them are Moderators. There are also members of other faiths.

I too knew survivors of Vorkuta and other hell-holes, and my former parish priest who taught my sons how to serve the Divine Liturgy (he is retired now) suffered greatly in Mordovia. I myself was privaleged to be present as a subdeacon for the procession and enshrinement of the relics of Bl. Vasyl Velychkovsky in Winnipeg a couple of years back. Have a blessed remainder of the Great Fast. Daj Bozhe z'drovya.
FDD

Dear Father Deacon Diak,
Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy reading your posts. You're a fountain of knowledge and faith expressed in an erudite and charitable way.
Vito

Yes, Father DIAKon, well, ROCKS!

(please ignore my pm to you earlier, Father DIAKon . . . also, is there any chance of me ordering a 150-step Lestovka from your Old Rite contact? The people in Erie are not helpful at all in this regard!).

Alex

Brat' Alexander - I am waiting for a reply. Believe me, I will stay on it (as I want one too... )

Mnohaja Lita on your birthday (one day after my oldest son's).
FDD

Dear Father Deacon,
thank you very much for your words of explanation. From my part I would like to apologize for my rush words and ask your forgiveness... "Prosty meni brate diakone sohrishenia moi volni ta nevolni..."
I was a bit confused when I have seen on your profile orthodox picture...
Yes, I can say one: situation in Our Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is very difficult. I personaly new Abp Vozniak since 1993. I was serving to his Liturgy's at St. Josyf Church in Lviv when he was a protoihumen of Redemptorists. We got together very well until 2000. Somce then I have seen him only about 5-7 times. I have heard many things what he is doing, and its causing pain to my hear... In my family( from my mothers side) all are ver fervent catholics. I was baptized in underground by Basilian Priest Fr Anatoliy Bajrak (+). I see in people's heart confusion. My father doesn't want to go to confession because according to his words "there are no good priests"... Thats why I deceided to support so called traditional movement, because "Salus annimarum suprema lex". Here in Poland I am attending Divine Liturgy at Basilian Church or Latin Tridention Mass with FSSPX. I remember this Mass since my childhood. We went to RCChurch on sundays as kids and the words: "Orate fratres..." still sound in my ear.
O hope that its ok for today.
I will certainly keep you in my prayers. Once again forgive me my rudness. Spasy Vas Xrystos ta Bohorodytsia.

Slava Isusu Xrystu!

Ivasyk Telesyk

With all due respect, I think that if Protestants and Freemasons had designed the new Mass, it would have had a much better translation, more and not less ritual, and WAY better music!

No, anyone who's ever read Thomas Day's classic "Why Catholics Can't Sing" knows that, sadly, the poor English translations, and mangled introduction into the Church of the "new Mass" were completely homegrown.

But on the bright side - we have nowhere to go but up!

Dear Dolly,

As I understand it, the input from the Protestants was very real . . .

And, as the Basilian priest explaining this long ago, "not that there's anything wrong with that!"

I can't imagine what I would do if they wanted to "Novus Ordonize" the Byzantine Liturgy of my Church!

I guess then I really would be an "ORTHODOX Catholic."

Have a great day on this my 50th birthday!

Alex

Dearest Father DIAKone,

I know so many great people born in March, it's not funny . . .

As for the 150 step Theotokos Lestovka, money is no object, I'm going to chalk it up to one of my birthday presents (so please feel free to factor in a generous fee for your trouble!).

Alex