www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Dormition fast

OK let's see if you can help.

Tomorrow is August 1

Now since I have managed , with a few hiccups, the Great Lent fast this year the time has come to start the Dormition one.

As far as I understand [ and since I doubt very much if I will be seeing my SD before the 15th ] I presume this is the 'usual' - no meat, fish, dairy, cheese, Olive oil and wine during the week, with wine and Oil being permitted at the weekends and Fish and wine for the Transfiguration.

Any other advice ?

Anhelyna

Hi Anhelyna

I was always taught that Sundays could NEVER be days of fasting!

Also that since Transfiguration is MAJOR HOLYDAY, it is NOT a day of fasting...

mark

Christ is in our Midst!

At least according to the Russian tradition, Anhelyna, you are correct. Also, since Dormition falls on a Friday this year, it also would be a Fish, Wine and Oil day.

If possible, some try and avoid any food or drink until noon; this is optional depending on state in life, health, etc.

Also remember that Aug. 29 is a strict fast day, meaning no food if possible.

In Christ,

Justin

Thanks for the reminder!

I must admit that my husband is beginning to wonder about me.

I mean as I am Latin he is used , well more or less, to the Lenten fast but this year ,following the Eastern practice it was certainly more - shall we say stringent , but having reorganised my eating habits again he is wondering exactly what I am up to.

However - we persevere - and it certainly was helpful.

Now however a reference has totally stumped me

Justin you said At this point I would say - which calendar and why ?

Again I repeat "Let the education continue"

Anhelyna

August 29th is the Feast of the Beheading of the Forerunner and Baptist John. I've never heard the "no food" aspect of this fast day, just the usual strict fast rules as in the Great Fast.

However, since John's head was presented on a platter, there is in places a custom to only eat from bowls, not plates. And since a head is more or less round, some folks try not to eat round food.

-- Ed

Well - confession time

Yes it had dawned on me that it was the Feast of the Beheading of John the Baptist.

But I had not actually looked at my dairy so had not realised that it was a Friday. That'll teach me

But I'm sorry - still don't understand why a strict fast day.

Sorry folks - do try and help me out here

Anhelyna

Hi gang...

Anhelyna, why are you looking in your dairy to find the date? Is this where your diary is??

We have a couple of families in my parish that do not use knives or plates or platters on the Feast of the Beheading. They usually serve soups or foods that do not need to cut with a knife.

mark

She feels a need to consume all the dairy products before the fast begins?

Or maybe diaries keep better when refrigerated?

Oh boy - I'm back with the inablity to proof read I see :p

glad to give you all some fun

I had been told at some point that on strict fast days such as Beheading of the Forerunner, Eve of Theophany, Great and Holy Friday, etc. one should avoid all food and drink if possible. That may be a monastic thing or a personal practice. I just go on what I'm told. I think I may have read something about it on a ROCOR website.

The whole issue is complicated by the fact that while agreeing in principle, every church seems to have its own spin on the precise fasting rules, the terminology is not consistent across all churches, and there is the inevitable discrepancy between ideals, required minimums, and guidance of one's spirtual father.

While you might be remebering what you heard perfectly, Justin, there are numerous counterexamples available on the web. For example, this calendar [saintnicholascathedral.org] has strict fasting most every weekday during the Great Fast. And this webpage [antiochian.org] says The week before Easter, Holy Week, is a special time of fasting separate from Great Lent. Like the first week, a strict fast is kept. Some Orthodox Christians try to keep a total fast on Holy Monday, Holy Tuesday and Holy Wednesday. thereby drawing a distinction between strict and total fasting.

In conclusion, re-read the first paragraph.

-- Ed

When we speak of fasting, we need to keep in mind the two types: pre-eucharistic and ascetical.

The pre-eucharistic fast is complete (no food, no drink, and no sexual activity). It is kept (with exceptions for health and travel) following the evening meal prior to receiving the eucharistic (i.e. midnight or from when we lay down to sleep). The Litya is the sign of this last, light evening meal prior to beginning the pre-eucharistic fast. In the full "all-night vigil" service, it would usually fall at sometime between 9:00 PM and midnight and include wheat, wine, bread, and olive oil.

Ascetical fasting is a disciplining of our appetites and a returning to norms of moderation. Thus we try to keep Wednesdays and Fridays without meat and dairy throughout the year in the hope that it will also cause us to eat moderately on the other days of the week! What good is it if we fast two days but eat as gluttons the other five days?

The discipline of ascetical fasting (literally "not eating" in Greek) allows for drink. So many folks keep to the ancient tradition of drinking tea, coffee, or other light drinks during the day up until the main lenten meal at 3:00 PM. Practically, because of the work environments, those who keep this end up missing out entirely on "eating" until getting home, or at least, out of work. My own compromise is to try and keep this until 12:45 PM since our cafeteria closes at 1:00 PM. But in reality, it is very good to hold off sometimes until 2:00 or 3:00 PM and sneak a few dried fruits and nuts at one's desk. In this, I really find that He provides all that is truly needful.

A strict fast is just that. We keep it strictly. That means no food, but allows light drink all day. The implication is that if we eat something at the end of the day, it would be extremely lenten. There are five strict fast days: Holy Friday, the Eves of Nativity (24 Dec)and Theophany (5 Jan), the Beheading of John the Forerunner (29 Aug), and the Elevation of the Holy Cross (14 Sep).

The strict fast is a way of reminding us that salvation can come through suffering. For example: Holy Friday is followed by a Vesperal Divine Liturgy on Holy Saturday (by the rubrics: at 4:00 PM). If one were perfect (who is sinless but Christ?) they would keep all of Holy Friday with just drinks (24 hours of ascetical fasting [no food]) followed by 14 hours of pre-eucharistic fasting [no food or drink] on Holy Saturday prior to the vesperal eucharist.

The strict fasts on the Eves of Nativity and Theofany are different in that the the strict fast days (the eves) are pre-eucharistic and so one should have no food or water all day in order to commune at the Vesperal Divine Liturgies on the eves (at 3:00 or 4:00 PM). The feast days themselves are morning Divine Liturgies and would be preceeded by the normal pre-eucharistic fast.

The Beheading and the Elevation are both strict fasts coupled with a morning eucharistic Divine Liturgies thus there is a eucharistic feast on the morning of a strict fasting day. I would think that one would celebrate these feasts with a meal including wine and oil, but no dairy, meat or fish. After the meal, one would pass the remainder of the day with drinks but no food.

What I convey here are the strictest models and still models only. There will necessarily be variations according to situations, health, etc.

May God bless all who keep and all who don't keep the fasts. If we eat, let's do it unto the glory of God. If we don't eat, likewise, let's do it unto the glory of God!

In Christ,
Andrew

Andrew,

Thank you for clearing up all the confusion. Byzantine regulations can be confusing, but once one has the system, it is pretty straight forward.

Justin

Let me just add that we should never see fasting or prayer as the ends, but as the means to a much greater end: communion with God.

Fasting should make us calm, focused, loving, and rejoiceful! If it doesn't, if we find ourselves wrapped up in a passion for the material things of the world, then we need to explore that further in the light of the Gospel.

As the Dean at my seminary once said, (paraphrased) If fasting makes you irritable, angry, and ready to kill someone, please go out and eat a hamburger!

But I have to agree that the fasting model is so beautifully balanced with the liturgical model that each baby step that I make toward keeping to those models causes me to understand just a little more the indescribable harmony that must be God Himself.

Rejoicing in the Fast of the Dormition of our All-Pure and Ever Virgin Lady the Theotokos,
Andrew