www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Who are Old Catholics?

Dear Friends,

What do we mean when we say "Old Catholic?"

What is included/excluded by that term?

Are they all in possession of valid Orders?

Alex

Where is Father Don when we need him?

Alex,
From what I have gleaned, many of the OC's still do possess valid apostolic succession. Dollinger's group split after Pastor Aeturnus was promulgated at Vatican I. The Utrecht Union still exists, and the PNCC was for a long time a member of this irregular group, though I think they might have left communion, since OC has gotten more and more heterodox. Old Catholicism in this country is overwhelmingly a clerical church, with few lay adherents. There is a group called the Liberal Catholic Church, which is a sort of bizarro world sect that rivals the UCC and Unitarian Universalism in its progressivism, has priestesses, but celebrates the Mass in the Tridentine style.

I think von Dollinger was the inspiration for the OC's, but I don't think he was ever actually in the church.

My understanding is when you say "Old Catholics" it generally means the various bodies that joined in the Utrecht Union. I think they are the ones who have valid orders. I believe they are ordaining women now though, so I don't know what that will do to their orders. The PNCC I believe broke communion with them over this.

The other common use of this term is Catholics who are members of the AARP.

I dunno Diak

I've e-mailed him twice since I got home from France and nary a word have I heard .

I'm concerned

Anhelyna

I have heard from him recently, Angela, and he says he will be coming on the 31st. I'll remind him you are waiting for a response...

Dear Rilian:

Thanks for including us in the discussion! There are a few of us here, you know!

James/Jakub, Mary Jo/Porter, Anhelyna, Al, et al., where are you?

Amado
Medicare-bound

here is a link from the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11235b.htm

Thanks Diak - I'm grateful for the info .

Have to say - I wish I could be there too - but I'll be thinking of , and praying for you then

Anhelyna

OY - Rilian

Watch it there - we are a very vocal group here - and " Ve haf vays ....... "

Anhelyna

I seem to be a wee bit behindhand today

I thought Old Catholics were any Catholics past the age of sixty five.
:rolleyes:
Seriously, I came across the Old Catholics when I saw an ad for Christ Catholic Church in the National Catholic Register many years ago. I find them intriguing, and like them, I have no more use for the ill defined dogma of Papal Infallibility than they.
However, let me suggerst a text called "Bishops at Large" by Whalen, I believe. The OCs in the USofA have long been plagued by soi disant OC bishops who got them selves "consecrated" in the Villate (spelling?) tradition, and then went about setting up their own churches (a colossal monument to their own egos. It is worth reading if you can find the book and a helpful balance to any discussion of the OC communion.
Much Love,
Jonn

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill. :p

speaking of which,many moons ago, I was in line at a banquet and a pastor friend of mine was with me. being the gentleman I am , I let him ahead of me with the memorable lines "age before beauty". that old geezer, at least thirty years my senior had the effrontery to reply "no, pearls before swine" yeah, treacherous old age. the noive!
Much Love,
Jonn

Amadeus/Anhelyna, no problem.

I can't speak to the validity of orders conferred by the AARP though. They got in a fight with the UUOCC over coverage through their HMO and PPO and involvment with the NRA and SCTV and one bishop went AWOL leaving a vacancy which they hope to fill ASAP. Right now though things are just TNG.

Is there a Canadian chapter of this organisation? If so, I smell something fishy...

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!