www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Jennifer and all who are upset...

Dear Matthew,

I don't pretend that Orthodoxy thinks the Pope is . . . anything!

(As an aside, this reminds me of the "religious world of Sir Thomas More where the pope was first and the king was . . . nowhere!")

All I"m saying is that things aren't black and white in every case and always.

That is not to minimize anything.

No one is disagreeing that the Papacy and other issues still separate the Churches.

The last time I looked, the Churches were still separated.

But I think you do Daniel a disservice in completely dismissing his point. That is your own tendency for "black and white" understandings coming to the fore. If I'm wrong about that, I'm sorry - but that's how I feel.

You've totally ignored the points concerning the recognition of Saints by Orthodoxy who were implicated in heresy.

No, you are wrong. St Nicetas was an Arian priest, ordained by the Arian bishop Ulfilas (who wrote that famous Semi-Arian confession of faith).

And still St Basil wrote a panegyric in his honour and he IS in the Orthodox calendar.

The Monophysite (with apologies to my Oriental brothers) saints that the Orthodox Church (and they are listed in the St Herman Calendar too) recognizes were part of the patrimony of the Monophysite/Miaphysite Georgian Church before it came into union with Orthodoxy.

St David of Garesja was excommunicated from Orthodoxy during his life - Greek theologians called him that "putrefaction" from Georgia.

And yet, today, he is in the world-wide Orthodox calendar.

Don't take my word for it, go check it out for yourself.

Download this and show it to "those in the know" that you trust and see what they say.

Actually, I'm beginning to like all this notoriety . . . I just may change my screen-name to "Simon Templar . . ."

But the fact is, Matthew, that you as an Orthodox Christian have, in your Orthodox Calendar, Saints who would have made St Photios' stomach turn.

You can get back with a response later, no hurry!

(Oh, I can feel you squirming now - do you see what Jennifer has done to me? )

Alex

Wow, see what happens when I leave this forum for a while in order to spend more time writing "Bonanza" fanfiction? (URL on request!)

I personally think that, regardless of what anyone thinks about the *administrative* aspects of the papacy, you can't help but respect the way that Pope John Paul II, in particular, has walked, uncomplaining, in the path of physical suffering - and his efforts to "wash the feet of the disciples" rather than lord it over them, as his Master advised.

It wouldn't hurt *any* Christian to follow the example of this Pope, whether or not they are inclined to submit to his authority.

Actually there is no squirming over here, I'm just scratching my head, for you are entering into an area and ancient issue relative to the Grace of God. As far as me ignoring Orthodox Saint's that are implicated in heresy I understand that we are not capable of knowing what critera and exact knowledge the Church had regarding the Saint at the time of his death or the complete reasoning that is used for determining Sainthood. It can even happen that an Arian Priest baptizes a Orthodox Saint just before he dies, and even much more than this has happened.

Surely you know at that time Arian sacraments had been considered valid by some and not by others and some people had been Sainted even if they lived during rough times and the growth of heresy or tensions. Surely you understand that as an example in more recent times that the Orthodox Church considers the sacraments of Macedonian Orthodox Church to be valid even though her Bishops are not in communion with world Orthodoxy, as such a Macedonian Saint is legitimate as well.

If you are putting forth the notion that Heretics can be Orthodox Saints and make St Photios' stomach turn I will tell you that these musings of yours are intellectual exercises that are not capable of looking at things in the same way or with the same Grace that the Orthodox Church does when those that you might think had been Heretics had been Sainted.

Anyone can put forth an argument from their own individual perspective, however I believe and know that when the Orthodox Church speaks on such matters it is from a different perspective than a singular one. Surely if they had been implicated in heresy as is the case with the Blessed Augustine or Saint Augustine the Orthodox Church alone is capable of discerning such matters. I might add that Augustine is listed as either Blessed or as Saint Augustine on Orthodox calendars even though all of his writings are not considered to be in accordance with Orthodox thought. Nevertheless, there are Orthodox theologians that would tend to disagree to say the least.


Orthodoxy thinks that the Pope has fallen into error or heresy and that is black and white even if you offer as a limited example for our consideration the Orthodox bishop spent his last few moments alive praising the Roman Catholic Church and the Papacy. By selectively picking out certain circumstances and presenting those situations as examples creates something of a distortion I think.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Perhaps, just perhaps, Zenovia meant that the Pope is considered the ' spiritual head of the Christian world' in the very real secular sense of his authority on morality and ethics.

If this is what she meant, she is indeed correct. This has nothing to do with the ancient war of 'who is the stronger, the better, the richer, the more infallible, or the more dogmatically correct Patriarch'. (Personally, with all the positive steps to analyzing the role of the Papacy that Orthodox and Catholic theologians are making as we speak, I think it is high time that the laity put their own anomosities to rest.)

As to the Pope's role in the ecumenical world view:

Who did President Bush (an Evangelical Protestant) visit after 9/11?

Who did Mikail Gorbachev, a baptized Orthodox, visit for much advice in the Vatican, as to how and what he should do with Communism and the Soviet Union?

What encyclical, (Humanae Vitae) did the MP study before issuing his own parallel encyclical?

The list could go on and on, but my memory is not up to the details, (these are just a few that come to mind at present from years of reading about theological and world events)--so-- without issuing any dogmatic or theological statement, one could easily state that *in the secular world*, people of all races, nations, and religions have looked, at one time or another, to the Pope's Christ centered wisdom and voice of Christian moral authority..

...now whether they all listen or not, is another story! )

(If it will give my statement more credibility, as I fully expect some argument, I listen to the Greek speaking news on occasion, and even they speak of the Pope in relation to 'what he said on this' and 'what he said on that', and always with the same respectability of position of Christian moral and ethical authority that I spoke of above..infact, much more so than they bring up the EP, who although I love and respect dearly, does not, generally, issue statements of ethical or moral issues. In the GOA here, there is much criticism by the laity about the silence we hear regarding many contemporary moral issues--save a rare recent statement of moral relevance by SCOBA regarding gay marriages..atleast, we got that, thank God)

With all due respect to Holy Orthodoxy, we just don't have a united voice, (SCOBA is a beginning) in this country, or in the world, to command the kind of authority the Pope does.

Fortunately, the Pope's conservative and God inspired opinions DO mirror the views of the Orthodox Church on contemporary issues, and in the end, with the all out war against secularism that we Christians have to take up arms in prayer with, that is okay with me.

Thank God, there is atleast one strong, well known, and pious Christian voice, *in addition to* the smaller and lesser known voices of holy and God inspired Orthodox hierarchs... though the one loud voice and the many softer voices may sadly, be crying out in the wilderness of a pagan, secular, and material world....

May our Lord God enlighten all hierarchs of the Church, whether Eastern or Western in these difficult days!

In Christ, the Lord and Saviour of ALL true pious and devout Christians of the world,

Alice,
who thinks this is a time for our goals and our souls to unite in love, mutual respect, and *in Christ* against the COMMON enemy

Amen

Dear Angeliki,

Yes, the list could go on. We can learn from history that human beings are capable of providing advise that is good or detrimental to humanity and the Church for that matter as well.

As such, if the Bishop of Rome or the Vatican say's something that is in agreement with Orthodox thought we can conclude that that would be good. If the Bishop of Rome say's something that is not in accordance with Orthodox thought that would be bad. And then there is the gray area.

And what Orthodox Church Fathers did the authors of (Humanae Vitae) study before issuing an encyclical? At that time do you think that Rome did not communicate with the Orthodox as it was being written?

And Mikail Gorbachev successor Mr. Putin nowadays who does he speak with or turn to in times of crisis and some other issues Rome or the MP?

Do keep in mind that President Bush also met with Orthodox Hierarchs and did not seem to heed what they said as well.

Now to create a list out of certain points in time to create an impression is sort of a lawyering technique.

Do keep in mind that you have failed to mention much that has caused much division within the Roman Catholic Church itself that was the result of worlds opinion of the powerful words of the Bishop of Rome. We know how the world and Roman Catholic Church reacted for example to the selling of indulgences for that made money for those who had been in power at that time.

To command the kind of authority the Pope does has had and will have all kinds of consequences. From what I can tell, many Roman Catholics nowadays hear the Bishop of ROMs words and accept some and reject others. I suppose it comes from the notion in society of pick and choose what you want to believe even if the Bishop of Rome's or the Latin Church position is otherwise.

By the way after 911 many people prayed to God so did President Bush from what I read. Now if you think that God's will is best articulated by means of Papal Degrees perhaps someone would be willing to provide a list that might be of some interest.

Now what if a Pope comes forth with less conservative views will many look to him for a voice as well?

And yes we do have a united voice in the Orthodox Church even if it is not heard by all. Many times in Holy writ we have heard the words of Christ.

Matthew 13:9
He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"

We don't believe that the Holy Spirit speaks only through the Papacy on matters of faith. There are many reason for this conclusion however I will mention that the papacy has taught things that are not in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church including the papacy as it exists today.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Beloved Matthew,

Please reread my post with less passion and a wee bit more objectivity, and you will see that you have misread its intention.

Your question as to what the world will do if a less conservative Pope were to have the seat is indeed a good one to ponder. However, and most fortunately, all the Patriarchs (estranged and non estranged *wink*) have been conservative, so I will have faith in the most Holy Spirit that it will continue that way....

I am glad, and I praise God, that Russia is now out from the Atheistic communist yoke and that Vladimir Putin is a practicing and devout Orthodox. (I love Russia and Russian Orthodoxy very much--their spirituality is an example to the whole Orthodox world). I am also glad that he is free to go to the MP for guidance. Glory to God for that, but let's not forget who had a historical role, by the grace of God, (for all things that happen are by HIS will and grace), in helping dismantle communism.

With much love in Christ,
Alice, who just doesn't see the war of Christianity against the Evil One with the same internal polemics that others do....sorry

P.S. I NEVER said it did!

I know all the arguments and the historical facts, and as I said, if our learned Orthodox and Catholic theologians can all restore the legitimate role of primacy in the Church *as practiced in the first millenium* before it developed differently in the West, (though being estranged from his brother Patriarchs, I suppose, the seat had no other choice), then who are we to be arguing? We should be praying!

Dear Matthew,

Yes, I know I'm implicated in heresy from a number of Orthodox perspectives!

But I still manage to sleep as peacefully as a baby at night!

The fact remains that there ARE saints in the Orthodox calendar who belonged to heretical/schismatic jurisdictions - but I think you have demonstrated indepth knowledge of the hagiographical context sufficiently so that we need not belabour the point.

I still don't see the need to invoke black and white perspectives on this matter.

But then, again, I'm a heretic, in whatever sense, and therefore the Grace of God does not work in me to cure me of my spiritual blindness, prelest and inner sickness.

I think I'll go take an aspire . . .

Alex

Dear Alex,

To use a quote from my dogmatics professor to a student who openly speculated that he may have fallen into heresy by his erroneous statements during class,

"You, my dear, are not important enough to be a heretic!"



With love in Christ,
Andrew

Dear Alex,

Yes, and I know that there are others who are not implicated in heresy from a number of Orthodox perspectives and maybe they don't sleep as peacefully as a baby at night. Do keep in mind Alex that God has blessed you and many others with very good hearts, for I know that the gray area that you are addressing is being addressed with mercy and compassion that you and others have for Christians and even those who are not Christians. These matters that we have discussed are very serious and sometimes from what I've read sometimes they are perceived differently even by different dogmatic professor's.

In Orthodox theology the mind is considered lower and the heart is expressed by the Orthodox Church Fathers as the seat of the soul and divine knowledge. I submit for your sincere consideration the a more recent Orthodox Church father.

The Miraculous and Prophetic Vision of St. John of Kronstadt

By St. John of Kronstadt


The Holy and Righteous John of Kronstadt recalled this vision which he had in January of 1901:

After evening prayers I laid down to rest a little in my dimly lit cell since I was fatigued. Hanging before the icon of the Mother of God was my lit lampada. Not more than a half hour had passed when I heard soft rustle. Someone touched my left shoulder, and in tender voice said to me, 'Arise servant of God John and follow the will of God!'

I arose and saw near the window glorious starets (elder) with frosty grey hair, wearing a black mantia, and holding staff in his hand. He looked at me tenderly, and I could scarcely keep from falling because of my great fear. My hands and feet trembled, and I wanted to speak, but my tongue would not obey me. The starets made the sign of the cross over me, and calm and joy soon came over me. Then I made the sign of the cross myself. He then pointed to the western wall of my cell with his staff in order that I should notice certain spot. The starets had inscribed on the wall the following numbers: 1913, 1914, 1917, 1922, 1924, and 1934.

Suddenly the wall vanished, and I walked with the starets toward a green field and saw a mass of crosses-thousands standing as gravemarkers. They were wooden, clay, or gold. I asked the starets, 'What are these crosses for' He softly answered, "These crosses are for those who suffered and were murdered for their faith in Christ and for the Word of God and have become martyrs!"

And so we continued to walk. Suddenly I saw an entire river of blood and asked the starets, 'What is the meaning of this blood? How much has been spilled?' The starets looked around and replied, This is the blood of true Christians!' The starets then pointed to some clouds, and I saw mass of burning white lamps. They began to fall to the ground one after another by the tens and by the hundreds. During their descent they grew dim and turned to ashes. The starets then said to me, 'Look!' I saw on a cloud seven burning lamps. I asked, 'What is the meaning of the burning lamps which fell to the ground' He said, Those are the churches of God which have fallen into heresy, but these seven lamps on the clouds are the seven Catholic and Apostolic Churches which will remain until the end of the world!'

The starets then pointed high into the air and I saw and heard angels singing, 'Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord of Sabbaoth!' Then a large crowd of people with candles in their hands rushed by with joy on their shining faces. They were archbishops, monks, nuns, groups of laymen, young adults, and even children and babies. I asked the wonderworking starets, 'What is the meaning of these people' He responded, These are all the people who suffered for the Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church, for the holy icons at the hands of the wicked destroyers.' I then asked the great starets if I could sit down next to them. The starets said, 'It is too early for you to suffer, so joining them would not be blessed by God!'

Again I saw a large group of infants who had suffered for Christ under Herod and had received crowns from the Heavenly King. We walked further and went into large church. I wanted to make the sign of the cross, but the starets said, 'It is not necessary to cross yourself because this is a place of abomination and desolation!' The church was very gloomy. On the altar was a star and a Gospel book with stars. Candles made of tar were burning and crackling like firewood. The chalice was standing there covered by strong stench. There was prosphora with stars. A priest stood before the altar with face like pitch and woman was under the altar covered in red with a star on her lips and she screamed and laughed throughout the church saying, 'I am free!' I thought Oh, Lord, how awful! The people, like madmen, began to run around the altar, scream, whistle, and clap their hands. Then they began to sing lecherous songs. Suddenly lightning flashed, frightening thunderbolt resounded, the earth trembled, and the church collapsed, sending the woman, the people, the priest, and the rest into the abyss. I thought Oh Lord, how awful, save us!

The starets saw what had happened as did I. I asked, 'Father, tell me, what is the meaning of this frightening church?' He responded, These are the earthly people, heretics who have abandoned the Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church and recognized the newly innovated church which God has not blessed. In this church they do not fast, do not attend services, and do not receive Holy Communion!' I was frightened and said, The Lord has pity on us, but curses those with death!' The starets interrupted me and said, 'Do not mourn, but just pray!' Then I saw a throng of people, each of whom had a star on his lips and was. terribly exhausted from thirst, walking here and there. They saw us and yelled loudly, 'Holy Fathers, pray for us. It is very hard for us because we ourselves cannot. Our Fathers and Mothers did not teach us the Law of God. 'We do not even have the name of Christ, and we have received no peace. We rejected the Holy Spirit and the sign of the cross!' They began to cry.

I followed after the starets. 'Look!' he said pointing with his hand. I saw a mountain of human corpses stained in blood. I was very frightened, and I asked the starets, 'What is the meaning of these dead bodies?' He replied, These are people who lived the monastic life, were rejected by the Antichrist, and did not receive his seal. They suffered for their faith in Christ and the Apostolic Church and received martyrs crowns dying for Christ. Pray for these servants of God!'

Without warning the starets turned to the north and pointed with his hand. I saw an imperial palace, around which dogs were running. Wild beasts and scorpions were roaring and charging and baring their teeth. And I saw the Tsar sitting on a throne. His face was pale and masculine. He was reciting the Jesus Prayer. Suddenly he fell like a dead man. His crown fell. The wild beasts, dogs, and scorpions trampled on the anointed Sovereign. I was frightened and cried bitterly. The starets took me by my right shoulder. I saw a figure shrouded in white - it was Nicholas II. On his head was a wreath of green leaves, and his face was white and somewhat bloodied. He wore a gold cross around his neck and was quietly whispering a prayer. And then he said to me with tears, 'Pray for me, Fr. John. Tell all Orthodox Christians that I, the Tsar-martyr, died manfully for my faith in Christ and the Orthodox Church. Tell the Holy Fathers that they should serve a Panachida for me, a sinner, but there will be no grave for me!'

Soon everything became hidden in the fog. I cried bitterly praying for the Tsar-martyr. My hands and feet trembled from fear. The starets said, :Look! Then I saw a throng of people scattered about the land who had died from starvation while others were eating grass and vegetation. Dogs were devouring the bodies of the dead, and the stench was terrible. I thought, Oh Lord, these people had no faith. From their lips they expelled blasphemy, and for this they received God's anger.

I also saw an entire mountain of books and among the books worms were crawling emitting ? terrible stench. I asked the starets, 'What was the meaning of these books?' ?? said, These books are the Godlessness and blasphemy which will infect all Christians with heretical teachings!' Then the starets touched his staff to some of the books, and they ignited into flames. The wind scattered the ashes. Further on, I saw a church around which was a large pile of prayer intentions for the departed. I bent over and wanted to read them, but the starets said, These prayer requests for the dead have been lying here for many years, and the priests have forgotten about them. They are never going to read them, but the dead will ask someone to pray for them!' I asked, 'Who, will they get to pray for them?' The starets answered: 'The Angels will pray for them!'

We proceeded further, and the starets quickened the pace so that I could hardly keep up with him. 'Look!' he said. I saw a large crowd of people being persecuted by demons who were beating them with stakes, pitchforks, and hooks. I asked the starets, 'What is the meaning of these people?' He answered, These are the ones who renounced their faith and left the Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church and accepted the new innovative church. This group represents priests, monks, nuns, and laymen who renounced their vows or marriage, and engaged in drinking and all sorts of blasphemy and slander. All of these have terrible faces and a terrible stench comes from their mouths. The demons beat them, driving them into the terrible abyss, from where hell fire comes forth. ' I was terribly frightened. I made the sign of the cross while praying, Lord deliver us from such a fate!

I then saw a group of people, both old and young, all of whom were terribly dressed, and who were raising a large, five pointed star. On each corner were twelve demons and in the middle was Satan himself with terrifying horns and a straw head. He emitted a noxious foam onto the people while pronouncing these words, 'Arise you accursed ones with the seal of ?..' Suddenly many demons appeared with branding irons and on all the people they placed the seal: on their lips, above the elbow and on their right hands. I asked the starets, 'What is the meaning of this?' He responded, This is the mark of the Antichrist!' I made the sign of the cross and followed after the starets.

He suddenly stopped and pointed to the east with his hand. I saw a large gathering of people with joyous faces carrying crosses and candles in their hands. In their midst stood a large altar as white as snow. On the altar was the cross and the Holy Gospel and over the altar was the vosduch with golden imperial crown on which was written in golden letter, 'For the short term.' Patriarchs, bishops, priests, monks, nuns, and laymen stood around the altar. They were all singing, 'Glory to God in the highest and peace on Earth' Out of great joy I made the sign of the cross and praised God. Suddenly the starets waved his cross upwards three times, and I saw mountain of corpses covered in human blood and above them Angels were flying. They were taking the souls of those murdered for the Word of God to heaven while they sang, Alleluia!' I observed all this and cried loudly.

The starets took me by the hand and forbade me to cry. 'What is pleasing to God is that Our Lord Jesus Christ suffered and shed His precious blood for us. Such ones will become martyrs who do not accept the seal of the antichrist, and all who shed their blood will receive heavenly crowns.' The starets then prayed for these servants of God and pointed to the east as the words of the Prophet Daniel came true, 'Abomination of desolation.' Finally, I saw the cupola of Jerusalem. Above it was a star. Within the church millions of people thronged and still many more were trying to enter inside. I wanted to make the sign of the cross, but the starets grabbed my hand and said, 'Here is the abomination of desolation!'

So we entered into the church, and it was full of people. I saw an altar on which tallow candles were burning. On the altar was a king in red, blazing, porphyry. On his head was a golden crown with a star. I asked the starets, 'Who is this?' He replied, 'The Antichrist!' He was very tall with eyes like fire, black eyebrows, a wedge-shaped beard, a ferocious, cunning, evil, and terrible face. He alone was on the altar and he reached his hands out to the people. He had claws as those of a tiger for hands and he shouted, 'I am King. I am God. I am the Leader. He who does not have my seal will be put to death.' All the people fell down and worshipped him, and he began to place his seal on their lips and on their hands in order that they should receive some bread and not die from hunger and thirst.

Around the Antichrist his servants were leading several people whose hands were bound as they had not bowed down to worship him. They said, "We are Christians, and we all believe in our Lord Jesus Christ!' The Antichrist ripped off their heads in a flash and Christian blood began to flow A child was then led to the altar of the Antichrist to worship him, but he boldly proclaimed, 'I am a Christian and believe in our Lord Jesus Christ, but you are a minister, a servant of Satan!' 'Death to him!' exclaimed the Antichrist. Others who accepted the seal of the Antichrist fell down and worshipped him. Suddenly roar of thunder resounded and thousand lightning flashes began to sparkle. Arrows began to strike the servants of the Antichrist. Then a large flaming arrow flashed by and hit the Antichrist himself on the head. As he waved his hand, his crown fell and was crushed into the ground. Then millions of birds flew in and perched on the servants of the Antichrist.

I felt the starets take me by the hand. We walked further on, and I again saw much Christian blood. It was here that I remembered the words of Saint John the Theologian in the book of Revelation that blood would 'be up to the horse's bridle.' I thought, Oh my God, save us! At that time I saw Angels flying and singing, 'Holy, Holy, Holy. Lord of Sabbaoth!' The starets looked back and went on to say, 'Do not grieve, for soon, very soon, will come the end of the world! Pray to the Lord. God be merciful to His servants!' Time was drawing near to close. He pointed to the east, fell to his knees and began to pray So I prayed with him. Then the starets began to quickly depart from the earth to the heights of heaven. As he did so I remembered that I did not know his name, so cried out loudly, 'Father, what is your name?' He tenderly replied, 'Seraphim of Sarov!'

That is what 'saw, and this is what ' have recorded for Orthodox Christians. A large bell rang above my head, and I heard the sound and arose from bed. 'Lord, bless and help me through the prayers of the great starets! You have enlightened me, the sinful servant, the priest John of Kronstadt."

(Translated by Priestmonk Orestes
Christ the Saviour Orthodox Seminary)

Dear Matthew,

Happily, I sleep more peacefully than that . . .

Talk to you next month!

Alex

Dear Mathew,

What I meant in my post is that there is no religious person in Christianity,that has spoken with authority on spiritual matters, other than the Pope. At least not one that would be listened to by all within Christianity... as well as outside of Christianity. Because of our acceptance on what the Pope says, (albeit unconsciencly), he must be considered the spiritual head of Christianity.

Mind you now, I said the 'spiritual' head of Christianity.

That he has been imperfect in history, especially before he ceased to become a political figure, is due to our fallen human nature. His faults, (and this is purely my perception), was due to the imperfections of the Western European world and the Church he was leader of. Basically, he became what they wanted and needed.

It seems to me, that the first thousand years in Rome, when it was still predominantly Roman/Greek, the Papacy was quite similar to the other Patriarchs. It then changed, as Italy became more Germanic. It seems then that the Pope acquired a more authoritative position, as well as a greater involvment in politic matters.

If you would note though, as to the 'differences' that occurred in the West in regard to things such as the Filioque, you would notice that these positions were taken by the Papacy in order to combat certain heresies.

What is unfortunate is that the Eastern churches cannot comprehend this, and only see it as the Pope assuming power that he does not have. The East therefore believes, the church in the West, if continuing to assume this authority on it's own, will fall into heresy.

It's a pity each Church can only perceive things through their own lenses. Christ I believe would want us at least to try to perceive things from the lenses of others.

As to the Saints, one has to remember that they were part and parcel of the culture they lived and died in. There have been Catholic saints that believed the exact opposite of what the Orthodox Saints believed. To them everything centered around the Pope, in the same way that many Catholics believe today.

I do hope Mathew that I have explained myself, or at least my personal viewpoint.

Zenovia

Dear Zenovia,

What you have written is and was a really a sad read for me. It is almost like an insult when I think about it. I can assure you that the Eastern Orthodox Churches know what they are doing.

I do understand that it is your personal viewpoint and I understand what you are saying.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Dear Matthew,

Thank you so much for posting the prophetic vision of Saint John of Kronstadt. I had not read it before, an can only relate it to the forty dreams of the Catholic Saint John Bosco, the founder of the Salesians.

Although each 'saint', whether Catholic, Orthodox or even (horrors) Evangelical, has been given their own individual gifts for the glory of God, in my opinion the writings and teachings of Saint John of Kronstadt has always surpassed all, and should be studied by all. I love him dearly... A truly great saint.

Zenovia

Matthew, is the St. John of Kronstadt selection from a larger work? If so, what is the title?

Thanks,
Charles