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Fr. Al,

I know of one Tuscan town, which is quite isolated, where the population is derived almost totally from the Etruscans.

Just thought that was interesting.

Logos Teen

Fr. Al, if Albanians settled Tuscany, then they must have become the Etruscans. Many of Tuscany's existing hilltowns were originally Etruscan cities that eventually came under Roman control years before the birth of Christ. Firenze, Volterra, and Cortona all have Etruscan museums.

Dear Logos Teen and Jim,My source of information is a book entitled "The Albanians: An Ethnic History from Prehistoric Times to the Present" by Edwin E. Jacques published by McFarland & Co. The author appears to be an American or maybe a Brit, in any case he writes as one who is a friend of Albania and who knows the language.He seems to favor the Albanians over the Greeks and the Serbs and seems to be neutral on religious issues. He seems to admire Metropolitan Fan Noli, but is misinformed about the Metropolitan's ordination probably stemming from an ignorance of Orthodoxy or the Eastern churches in general.He writes about Fan Noli being ordained a priest by the Russian mission in North America, which is true, but seems to think that he was "reordained " in Albania when in fact ,Fan Noli was consecrated a Bishop by two Bishops who apparently did not have the blessing from Constantineople, but that was later rectified.The author admire the Metropolitan more as a statesman or ethnic leader.As to the Etruscans, has anyone ever been able to link them with any people or language, ded or alive?My Hungarian teacher believed that the Etruscans could have been Magyars and I read of some Feench scholar who theorised that Fenno-Ugric people had been in Western Europe long before the Magyar invasion, though I don't recall him linking Magyars to Etruscans.I'll close for now, because I have to get to church to serve Vespers for Sts. Peter and Paul.

This was posted on the Orthodox Christian News Service this week. It is in reply to the initial articles that were posted last week.

Orthodox Christian News Retraction [orthodoxnews.netfirms.com]

Father Anthony+

Thank you Father Anthony for posting this. I had sent an email to the news service asking them about one of the stories in question. I'm pleased that they've retracted.

Dear Fr. Al you said:

"As to the Etruscans, has anyone ever been able to link them with any people or language, ded or alive?My Hungarian teacher believed that the Etruscans could have been Magyars and I read of some Feench scholar who theorised that Fenno-Ugric people had been in Western Europe long before the Magyar invasion, though I don't recall him linking Magyars to Etruscans.
--------------------------------------------------
I say, or at least I think:

That the Etruscans were closely related to the Cretans. They resemble them, at least in their profile and high bridge nose. The Etruscans were undoubtably brilliant and highly artistic, (note the Florentines), as are and were the Cretans. As an example, El Greco was a Cretan that learned his trade in the West.

I've always been curious about the Etruscans and it's a pity that Julius Caesar's history of the Etruscans has been lost. Actually it's a pity that so many books were lost, first in the fire in the Alexandrian library, and then destroyed by the Turks in the library of Constantinople. What a pity the ancients didn't have the printing press.

As for the Albanians, who are the real one's anyway? I know that the (so called) Albanians that Lord Byron loved and whose war songs he sung in Switzerland were really Greeks. Lord Byron paid them for their help in liberating Greece.

Zenovia

To continue:

It seems that Europe was populated way before the Arians came in. The Basque language has no relationship to any existing language, and it seems to me if the Basque people did not speak an Indo-European language, then there must have been many others tribes in Europe that had their own language. These languages would have mingled with the Indo-European one causing the differences that exist today between the Germanic languages, the romance languages, the Slavic languages and of course Greek...All of them Indo-European.

As for the Cretans, who I sincerely believe were related to the Etruscans, Greek was the last four languages they spoke. The first language of the Cretans has not been translated as far as I know. It undoubtably is not Greek, for had it been it would have been translated long ago.

Now as far as Sicily and Southern Italy goes, there are towns there that continue to speak Greek. The language is dying out though. What a pity! But then what a pity that any language dies out.

Zenovia

Greetings from Toronto!

First, I am happy to discover this forum, and second I wanted to add something on Fan Noli question, especially a detail on his episcopal status, which was mentioned above.

The reference of 'reordination' of Noli to episcopacy it is justifed enough, since Fan Noli acted as a bishop from 1919 to 1923, when he was 'trully' ordained by two Albanian bishops of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

In fact the Archimandrite Theofan Noli had the real status of 'Bishop-elect' in 1919, but he was not ordained by the Russian church, because of Greek-Albanian politics, and may be of Russian-Russian politics.

Therefore it is natural for a 'secular' writter to get confused and speak of reordination, since Noli had acted as a bishop during those years, serving as bishop, publishing books as 'Peshkop Fan Noli' etc.

There is nothing published on Noli's ecclesiastical status during 1919-1923. How far did Noli go as a bishop-elect priest? Did he ordain clergy before his episcopal ordination?

I think there is an interesting connection between Noli and the Orthodox Ukrainian precedent. Can anyone recomend a reading on the Ukrainian example? (Acting Orthodox bishops without episcopacy?)

On Noli's liturgical translations, as a parenthesis, here is this article, taken from Toronto site www.albanianorthodox.com [albanianorthodox.com]

http://www.shqiptarortodoks.com/tekste/shkrime/ideological.html

Dear Vizantinos, Welcome here; hope you enjoy. Vito

Dear Vizantinos,Welcome from me,also and thanks for the info. you posted. I was aware that Met. Fan Noli was Bishop-elect from 1918.I believe that the chaos resulting from the Russian Revolution prevented his being made Bishop here in North America.Are you certain that he acted as a Bishop while Bishop-elect?He may have been given the mitre when he was made Archimandrite, this is the practice of the Russian church.A Bishop-elect might have administrative powers without the actual power to ordain.Married priests have acted as administrators under some circumstances.

Thank you, Vito!

Thank you, Fr. Al!

I am sure that Noli did act as bishop. He did not sign as 'Bishop-elect', during 1919-1923, but as 'Bishop Fan Noli'. His most popular work in Albanian, "Historia e Sk�nderbeut', was published in 1921, by "Peshkop Fan Noli" (And then this work was translated also in Italian).
You are right when you say that Noli was a "mitrofor" and administrator of the Albanian Mission. But also Fr. Vasil Marku was 'mitrofor' and member of the Holy Synod in Albania, but he did not act as a bishop and no one confused his office. The only thing I don't know is how far did Noli abuse as bishop-elect in the Albanian world. And here comes up the issue of ordinations.

There are several things said on why the Russians did not ordain him, while the Synod of the Russian Church had elected Noli bishop. There is nothing said about the revolution. Most likely, according to Noli and many others, his ordination was a Greek issue and it was handled accordingly.

I am an Orthodox layman, new to your forum. I can enlighten a bit on the "Italo-Greek Orthodox". THey are, as far as anyone knows, a group consisting of one tiny congregation in Bellingham, WA (my former Episcopal priest is the clergyman) and in Utica, NY.
Also as far as anyone knows (or they will admit!) that is the two places on planet earth where an IG-Orthodox can take communion, as they seem to be in communion with no historical Orthodox Chruch. The only legit "Italo-Greeks" are Roman Catholic.
Look no more into this tribe, it's a dead end. Someone earlier mentioned this group looked a little odd; he was right.

OK, I give up.

What is Arberesh?

+T+
Michael

Is this of interest to you.

This church is nearby and Iplan on going there some day soon:

http://www.byzantines.net/OurLadyofGrace/

Jim

I have a similar interest.

Anyway, what is to prevent the bishops of Lungro or Piana degli Albanesi (one or the other) from Italy just sending a priest under their own Omophor and saying "OK world, here we are, deal with it"?

What need have they even for a hierarch of one of the established Eastern churches? (assuming that they are suitably funded?)

+T+
Michael