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Well put Gordo! That is exactly my concern.
The Turks and the present situation.
Would have been better to have some of the Holy Relics to have remained in Rome, and the majority returned to the Orthodox Church.
Stephanos I

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Mike, yes of course you are right. If anyone were a serious student of eccesiology, they would have to understand that basic principle.
The Church is One and cannot be devided. That is true. (And that aspect sometimes causes me concern in the Ecumenical Circles, since it seems to be down played.)
And I most definitely agree that, "Where Peter is there is the Church" and the Primacy of the Church of Rome, and that all must agree with this Church, that she is the mother See, and that the Pope is the Elder Brother."

However, we do have the statement of the Holy Father when he said that the seperation was not serious enough even to call it a schism. And although it was not an Infallible statement, I do most heartily agree with him.

How can we reconcile these two together?
Enough for now, Ive rammbled far too long and need to get to work. But I would like to continue with this thought for group discussion.

How can the Church be One, Indivisble and yet both East and West divided?
Stephanos I
One who serves and is A Axios.

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Sister Alice, I dont think a lot of Latin Catholics would see that as "good will"(myself included) nor his conversion as "great." Many would see that as proslytism. What would have been better is that both remained in their specific jurisdictions and lived in harmony together as an example to us all.
Stephanos I

PS Alice, I hope you also realize by now my great respect and admiration of the Orthodox. So please do not take my statement as a slam. I really dont like Denny's that much anyway lol.
Dear Father Stephanos,

Ofcourse I don't see your response to me as a slam, and infact, I do agree with you. If you reread my post, you will not read that I thought his conversion was 'great'.

My point was, (oh the limitations of the written word! wink ) that ATLEAST this priest had the courage to accept my former RC friend as being one in the faith and therefore, communed him.
He *did not* do it, to my knowledge to convert him.

However, when the inevitable marital problems of whose faith a couple is going to raise their children in arose its ugly head, and my GO girlfriend's husband wished to please her as well as to worship as one family with her and their children, he so *appreciated* her priest's gesture that it made him consider his wife's desire for him to convert.

I guess the silver lining in all of this is that he is now a weekly church goer, whereas he was a marginal Catholic, at best, before his marriage.

Unfortunately, as relations between our faiths stand presently, this is the difficult decision many have to make in the many interfaith marriages which occur yearly. (It is of even greater dismay because MOST of the marriages in my church are with Roman Catholics, and because we are not in communion, spouses generally have to decide to choose one OR the other).

On the other hand, I have another RC friend married to a Greek Orthodox woman who NEVER converted because he was a devout RC, and would attend Mass every Sunday morning and then attend Divine Liturgy with his wife and children afterwards.

He is well loved in both the RC church where he also teaches catechism and in the Greek Orthdox church that his wife belongs to. Their children have grown to be well adjusted ecumenical and lovely young adults.

With great knowledge of both his faith and a good knowledge of the Orthodox faith, conservative RC piety, as well as a theology degree from a RC University, he has been a Godsend of good ecumenical relations for our two churches.

As his wife tearfully prayed at a Greek Easter party they throw every year for their RC and Orthodox friends, "I wish that our two churches would unite soon so that we could celebrate every year together!" (That particular year we shared a common Easter)

To that, I say "AMEN"! smile

Always Respectfully,
In Christ,
Alice

P.S. When prosletyism rather than careful consideration is imposed by either faith on a couple OR anybody, it is uncalled for.

P.P.S. DISCLAIMER: Incase the above story of communing outside the faith causes any of my Orthodox brethren to be scandalized, please note that I am only the messenger, and am not endorsing nor taking a position on what has not been agreed upon by the Orthodox in regard to this matter. What one's heart desires should not supercede obedience to one's faith.

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Alice,

I like the story you told us. With Stephanos, however, I hope that the Greek priest concerned was not trying to convert anyone. I don't know from your story whether he was or not.

Stephanos,

I agree that we shouldn't try to proselytize each other. I wouldn't personally try to convince a Catholic to become Orthodox. I, like you, think we should just live with each other in love. It seems to me that living with each other should include communion. There are places in the world where Catholic and Orthodox faithful intercommune regularly already.

Call it civil disobedience. I'm just wondering if people think it's justifiable in light of the manifestly unjustifiable nature of our separation and our hierarchs' unwillingness to fix the situation. Note that I'm talking mainly about our Orthodox hierarchs as Rome has been quite proactive of late.

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Dear David,

Please read my above post.

The priest *did not do it, to the best of my knowledge, to convert anyone*.

In Christ,
Alice

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Dear Alice,

You say that one's heart's desire should never supercede obedience to one's faith.

Nobody could disagree with this at face value, but what does it mean in practice. Does it mean unquestioning obedience to your Bishop? Probably. I'm sure this is safest. Gotta be dangerous to go out on your own.

But what if you believe that Catholic's and Orthodox are both the Church? Is it that out of line to act according to this belief?

DL

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Sorry Alice, I was typing when your post came up. It sounds like a great story and I applaud that priest's courage. I think it really is courageous, and it seems to me to be the right thing to do.

DL

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Originally posted by Mike0126c:
The Church IS ONE IN FACT. The Church is not split. People may leave the Holy Catholic Church but that in no way affects her unity. Where the successor of St. Peter is, there is the Church .
Hello Mike,

The Holy Gospel of St. Matthew 18:20 - For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. peace, wg

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Would that Greek Orthodox priest be wrong to attempt to or pray for that Roman Catholic man's conversion? Would a Roman Catholic priest be wrong to do the same in a similar situation? To many on this board, the answer to these queries would be a resounding "yes." Personally, I can't understand this when I acknowledge the fact that both Churches believe themselves to be the sole retainer and guardians of the True Faith.

And I must agree with Alice that one's personal inclinations should never supercede the directions of a legitimate episcopal superior or the guidelines of one's Church.

Logos Teen

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