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From hanging around here I've become acquainted with the Eastern Orthodox idea of 'the oikonomia' and I'm curious as to how exactly it works. I have heard, for instance, that Eastern Orthodox teaching on divorce differs from that of that of the Roman Church as a result of the economy? What are the principles behind the economy and when and where is it applicable in the life of Eastern Orthodoxy?

Gracias
Myles

Myles,

You really like the hard the questions, or is it you are working up to the great mystery of knowing what is on God's mind ?

Oeconomia recognizes that some pastoral latitude much be given for certain situations. Almost always they are pastoral in nature. In almost all circumstances, the extension of oeconomia is reserved to the hierarch for a pariticular situation, that may or may not require some documentation or research. It is a recognition of our fallen nature and that things are not always defined within a parameter of black and white, and that we must be reconciled as an extension of Christ's love.

Mind you this does not give a bishop "carte blanche" to disregard certain doctrines or matters, but is extended in a case by case examination. BTW, divorce is not always a given. It must be well documented, and fit within particular definitons. I.E., irreconcilable differences does not fit the bill, but adultery or frigidity does. Again, each is done case by case.

I hope this helps a little.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Hehe, knowing whats on God's mind? Chance'd be a fine thing. Thanks for the info though.

Miles �

Despite some word-age - The Orthodox view and Catholic view are exactly the same. Some flexibility is called for in many cases and it is up top the priest in charge of hearing � to determine if research is needed.

My sister's first husband was messing with heroin when they got married. And we did not know it. It took time - but she was granted an annulment. He had (unknown to my sister) been discharged from the service because of drug related paranoia before they met.

So while the words may differ due to the Greek and Latin based expressions of theology - the spirit is the same. Orthodox and Catholic application - is the same. Scratch the surface of Orthodoxy and you will find the Catholic church - or scratch the surface of the Catholic church and you will find Orthodoxy.

-ray

"It is a recognition of our fallen nature and that things are not always defined within a parameter of black and white, and that we must be reconciled as an extension of Christ's love."

My problem with this is that the Lord Himself told us that divorce is contrary to what the Creator had ordained "in the beginning" but that due to the "hardness of your hearts" Moses made allowance for it. But Christ counters that is if one divorces and remarries, or if one marries a divorced person, one commits adultery. Yet He does give the exception for invalid unions.

Matthew 19:3-9.
3 And there came to him the Pharisees tempting him, saying: Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 Who answering, said to them: Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, made them male and female? And he said:
5 For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh.
6 Therefore now they are not two, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.
7 They say to him: Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorce, and to put away?
8 He saith to them: Because Moses by reason of the hardness of your heart permitted you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.

Some Orthodox are more reluctant to allow for divorce and follow what seems to be like the equivalent of an annulment (declaration of nullity). Others seem to be more lax, accommodating to people's weakness. But Christ called allowance for divorce by Moses as something that arose "by reason of the hardness of your hearts." In other words, this is a deviation from the will of God.

For those that want to bring a scripture battle concerning the issue into play, a later injunction which represents how oeconomia is applied is given in John 20:23. In quickly searching, trying to find an excellent paper given by now retired Archbishop Peter (L'Hullier) a renowned Doctor of Orthodox Canon Law in North America on "Divorce", I found a quick link: Divorce [oca.org] . Unfortunately, the paper does not appear online, at least by my quick search, but for those that can find it in print, it explains oeconomia at length.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Verse 9 of the Matthean exception refers to "pornea" in Greek, meaning "sexual immorality." This is much broader than "fornication" or "adultery."

Some examples of a basis for divorce (as a last resort, for indeed it is not in God's design):

If one spouse attempts to use the conjugal relationship against the other as tool, by denial or overuse, as a form of physical or psychological punishment, this would also fit into "pornea." Perversions, sexual games, etc. might all fit into this category.

A relatively new one: addiction to pornography (sexually immoral writings) or pornoikonia (sexually immoral images) when the addicted partner refuses to seek treatment, etc.

In Orthodoxy, usually, serious physical threats or psychological torture by one spouse against the other or against third parties, especially the children, falls into the category of "pornea."

Let's think of this way: Isn't it sexually immoral to go out selling drugs on the street, robbing and killing people daily and then come home and engage in a conjugal relationship with the innocent spouse?

So "pornea" can be thought of as anything that seriously undermines one of the primary bases of marriage, a conjugal relationship based on God's love for us and expressed between a man and woman committed to each other.

In Christ,
Andrew

It's my understanding that pornea could refer to the marriage itself being sexually illicit, not sexual illicitness being grounds for divorce. A marriage would be sexually illicit, for example, if the couple were never properly married, or were too closely related, ect. That would make a heck of a lot more sense given the entirely Jewish context of the message.

There doesn't seem to be any reason to presume that it refers to sexual illitness outside of the marriage. Not saying that's wrong either, just that there are definately different ways to understand it.

Fr. Anthony: Can sins be forgiven before hand, and can they be forgiven in spite of the fact that a person intends to commit the sin again? I ask this because forgiving someone of the sin of marrying again doesn't seem to imply that it's ok to continue fornicating with the "new spouse".

That just seems to be stretching the bounds of forgiveness a bit, to me at least. I mean, if the person confesses to fornicating with a new legal spouse, how is that any different than them confessing to beating someone mercilessly? Does the Confessor really have the authority to say "You can keep doing that, it's all forgiven now"?

Perhaps I'm missing something, in which case I humbly welcome correction/clarification!

Dear Ghosty,

The Roman Catholic approach to sin is quite legalistic as exemplified in your first paragraph.
That does not mean that I am condeming the approach, just acknowledging/pointing it out.

The Eastern Orthodox approach is one of compassion for the fallen nature of man, and how to get him on the right spiritual road to salvation, and that can imply 'economy/dispensation' as determined by ones' spiritual father in an individual case scenario. That is why a Roman Catholic in the past, could go into a confessional and recite his sins, but the Orthodox have always been encouraged to sit down with their confessors and to continue with the same confessor who gets to know the individual weaknesses/stumbling blocks of the individual.

There are merits and drawbacks to both approaches.
Let's try to respect them both, always keeping in mind that cultures (as in Western European vs. Eastern European) play a part in how people act and think and how the Church has evolved. Ultimately the Church both in the West and the East is concerned for the salvation of the soul of its people.

In Christ,
Alice, Moderator

Oikonomia is by its nature not an exact science (and this distresses the canon lawyers, though I won't pretend to sympathize with them). It is rather pastoral in its application, based on the concept that the father of a family knows that each of his children is unique, with unique needs.
As to divorce, take a good, hard look at the annulment process in the West.

Incognitus

Alice: Thank you very much for your response. I would stress, however, as you yourself seem to point out that the views are complimentary rather than contradictory. In this light a "seperate but equal" approach doesn't seem to get at the heart of my question.

Western Catholics are always, it seems, called on to give account as to how the "legalistic" method preserves the pastoral concern and care for the soul of the sinner/penitent. Not only do I not have a problem with that, I actively encourage it, as legalism without love is exactly what Jesus condemned in the Pharisiacal approach to the Law. The Western response has been a continued effort to "reign in" the legalistic mindset and the errors its abuse can lead to, as can be seen in the Counter-Reformation and its proclaimations against the rampant legalism so rightly derided by Martin Luther.

I, for one, have never entered a Latin confessional without having been asked to specify and clarify my sins, nor have I left without direct pastoral guidance in how to avoid them in the future.

How do the Eastern Orthodox uphold the Law that is clearly given by God? After all, Jesus did explicitely state "Obey my commands", and "go and sin no more", not "obey my commands when possible, and sin if you can't really help it". He ate with sinners, but when they repented and changed their ways. Of course His words must be understood in the context of love and charity, and the understanding that we must forgive seven times seventy times, but I'm honestly asking, not polemically, how the Orthodox maintain this teaching in light of the philosophical approach described?

I'm certain there's an answer to this, I'm just not familiar with it given my lack of exposure to Orthodox teaching and practice in this regard. It was not without reason that Christ said to obey His commands, and I know that the Orthodox generally do not extend Oikonomia to the level of laxness in all manner of sins. I'm just curious how this is done.

Peace in Christ!

Indeed. The abuse of the annulment process is one of the greatest victories of modernism. Remember, however, that the way the Annulment process has been used in the West, espescially in the U.S., over the last half-century has been coming under harsh review of late, both at home and abroad. It's not something that's being allowed to just rest "as is".

After all, it was not a change in the annulment process that precipitated the abuse we have today, but rather a change in the culture that applied the process. The same laws one hundred years ago led to virtually no annulments, while now they are more common by the hundredfold and more. The question that's being asked is whether or not the process as it was upheld before was adequate to deal with the kind of cultural change that manifested in the West over the last fifty years or so.

A hammer in the hand of a carpenter is a tool for building up, but in the hands of a murderer is a weapon for tearing down; the Catholic Church is currently moving to find a way to either take the hammer out of the hands of the murderer, or preferably turn him into a carpenter. In fact, the response towards this has been relatively swift compared to the usual movement of such things that are usually measured in decades and centuries, rather than years. The problem has been identified, it's the solution that is being evaluated.

Peace and God bless!

Ghosty,

Your point that "pornea" can refer to the illicit nature of a marriage itself is thoroughly correct, but one would be wrong in one's understanding of "pornea" to confine its meaning to that.

It is true that a monogamous, otherwise healthy and normal marriage between two first cousins in "pornea" (sexually immoral) and thus a legitimate basis for a divorce, but we cannot limit "pornea" only to such cases (incest). The scriptural usage of the word simply does not allow that strict limitation.

In Christ,
Andrew

Well the Angel Rapheal had the perfect answer for the woman Tobiah was to marry. I find it interesting that in one translastion it says, 'she is of your tribe.' I think all to often folks marry and have no understanding of what the customs/traditions of the other family work. This adds tremendous stress in a relationship.

Also, Tobiah listen to Rapheal, he quesitoned that this woman had been married seven times and each time the man was killed by the spirit as her husbands approached her in the bridal chamber. When Tobiah took the fish and did exactly what Rapheal said to do with it that night, the spirit fled.

I think it so points to the necessity of obedience to God's word, when he speaks we must listen, for God can and will conquer every evil that is formed against us in marriage. I know there are always exceptions, even Moses gave into on that.
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/tobit/tobit6.htm

Somewhere, and I don't remember where I read or heard it, but there was a woman whose husband was an athiest. She believed and prayed fervently for his conversion, however, she died and he was not converted, until... one day he found her journals and began reading them. He was converted, became a priest, and worked the rest of his life for her beatification. Whoever she is I remember she was declared a saint.

So maybe like in Tobit 6:17 we should use the fish's liver and heart in the incense and marriages would be healed.
Tobit 6:17 When you go into the bridal chamber, take the fish's liver and heart, and place them on the embers for the incense. (18)As soon as the demon smells the odor they give off, he will flee and never again show himself near her.

And then as he continues in Tobit 6:18, if Jesus is invited into the marriage bed, heaven and earth will be moved for the couple and the family.
Then when you are about to have intercourse with her, both of you first rise up to pray. Beg the Lord of heaven to show you mercy and grant you deliverance. But do not be afraid, for she was set apart for you before the world existed. You will save her, and she will go with you. And I suppose that you will have children by her, who will take the place of brothers for you. So do not worry." When Tobiah heard Raphael say that she was his kinswoman, of his own family's lineage, he fell deeply in love with her, and his heart became set on her.

Pani Rose

Dear Ghosty,

Please know that whether a breakup is called: ecclesiastical divorce or annulment, it is usually granted through pastoral concern and compassion.

Yes, all marriages should stay together and in a perfect world, I suppose they would. However, there are circumstances that go above and beyond what is tolerable, and in such cases, both East and West grant oikonomia.

I will give you a scenario given to me recently by a spunky Orthodox friend on her own situation:

She and her husband got a legal divorce many years ago. She has not remarried. Our present priest would not allow her to serve on the Church board unless she resolved the ecclesiastical status of her divorce. So, she went about the long and arduous process of gathering papers, etc, from places and times long ago to resolve the issue.

She finally came infront of an ecclesiastical court comprised of priests and a bishop.

She stood infront of them, and the stern and unwielding looking Bishop asked her: "Couldn't you resolve your problems with your husband?"

Her (spunky) response was: Your Grace and Fathers, where should I start? Should I have resolved my differences with him when he was beating me? Should I have resolved my differences when he walked out on me and our two small children without a penny? Should I have resolved my differences when he moved in and had an affair with my best friend?...or... Should I have resolved my differences a year later when on the day of our wedding anniversary he had a child with my former best friend?

According to her, the Bishop and the priests gasped, and their condescending and stern attitude melted into one of compassion, as they stated "you poor child". Ecclesiastical divorce was granted.

In Christ,
Alice