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Andrew,
so, other than ROCOR and Old Believers, would an Orthodox from any particular group be able to receive communion at a church that is a different Orthodox group. Example, could an Albanian Orthodox be able to receive at a Greek Orthodox?

And do you have a web site address so that we can all look at the beautiful ROCOR in Jordanville?

Thank you
denise

You're right Andrew, they *were*. Now ROCOR in the northeast USA is acquiring somewhat of a Carpatho-Rusyn character. Metropolitan Lavr / Laurus (Shkurla) is a Rusyn, a native of northeast Slovakia who as a youth joined the brotherhood of St. Job of Pochaev who had set up shop in his native village as the monks fled westward from Russia. Eventually they were driven from Czechoslovakia and settled in Jordanville.

In the wake of the OCA's enforced calendar change and other disruptions of the 1980s and 1990s, several Carpatho-Rusyn OCA parishes, notably in Pennsylvania (Mayfield, Simpson, Old Forge, Wilkes-Barre, California, Belle Vernon, and McKeesport) either went under ROCOR or the traditionalists left their OCA parish and formed new parishes under ROCOR. And a new mission parish in Carnegie, Pa. is also largely Rusyn.

Unfortunately, these parishes (who except for Belle Vernon & McKeesport were almost entirely Lemkos and their descendants) had already been Russified under the Metropolia/OCA and today keep little of their Lemko Rusyn customs. One exception is that in Mayfield and Simpson they still sing the Paschal tropar in the Galician melody with the Rusyn pronunciation, set up a "stone cave"-style grave on Great Friday, and in all these places sing the traditional "koljady" Christmas carols that are unknown in Russia.

Just wanted to inject a little bit of reality into this particular topic. First, the parishes of Wilkes-Barre and Belle Vernon did not leave the OCA. In both cases, a small group of people defected to ROCOR to set up new parishes. (In the case of Belle Vernon, it was litterally a few people.) Both parishes remain as vibrant communities in the OCA.

Also, it would be inaccurate to say that there was a "russification" of, specifically, the Belle Vernon parish. The Belle Vernon parish was a mission parish of the Charleroi parish. It was what it was. There was no russification. In fact, although it is true that many of the parishes in the OCA today use "Russian" music and traditions, like my own, to say, that there is still a russification is disingenuous. My parish is free to use whatever music and traditions they want, Russian, Carpatho-Russian, or otherwise. Many of the OCA parishes, especially in large cities like Pittsburgh, are quite pan-Orthodox, with a Russian or Carpatho-Russian base

Another important point about these parishes that defected to ROCOR, most with nasty court battles, is that the issue was largely not about calendars. That was a smoke screen. The issues largely were around money, specifically dues that they owed to the OCA but never paid, as a form of protest for various things that they didn't like, mostly episcopal authority.

And certainly, there should be no doubt that absolutely none of those people or parishes who caused schisms and left the OCA to join themselves to other jurisdictions did so to "protect" or "regain" Carpatho-Russian or Rusyn customs.

Priest Thomas

Father Thomas,
I could have been more verbose and thus clearer in what I wrote above, but strictly speaking, if you read it again, it is not inaccurate. Please note that I wrote "either went under ROCOR or the traditionalists left their OCA parish and formed new parishes under ROCOR". In the case of Belle Vernon (the ROCOR parish which was formed by former parishioners of Monessen, not Charleroi or the Belle Vernon OCA parishes), Wilkes-Barre (now Sugar Notch) and Old Forge, this is precisely what happened.

(Depending on who tells the story, they may have been "traditionalists" or "money-grubbers"; your mileage may vary.)

Of course parishes such as the Belle Vernon OCA church and the above-mentioned "new parishes" of ROCOR were not Russified by the OCA. However, they were formed by the descendants of Rusyn people who were indeed Russified--in their church life at least--as members of the former Metropolia/now OCA.

I'm sorry, but you completely missed my point. I am not claiming that there is "still a russification." I am sure that if an OCA parish today chose to sing exclusively either the Subcarpathian Rusyn prostopinije, or the Galician prostopinije or samoilka, they would have nothing to prevent them from doing so--EXCEPT for the fact that most Rusyn Americans in the OCA are the descendants of people whose church life was Russified to the extent that their native traditions of church singing were all but extinguished and thus they do not know what their ancestral tradition even is in this respect; how and where would they even begin such a restoration? Whether the disppearance of this native tradition happened voluntarily or through pressure is a topic that has yet to be sufficiently analyzed.

Certainly true. Why would someone attempt to "protect" something of which they personally knew nothing?

I believe that the idea that "Russification" occurred as something extrinsic to the people that inhabited many of the OCA parishes is an oversimplification. While many of the parishioners (not all) indeed were of Carpatho-Russian background, and many of the melodies that were sung in church, especially during the weekdays, were of the prostopinije, by the 1950s, they had widely fallen out of disuse. This is hardly a "Russification." That is to say, there was no concerted effort to remove those melodies. However, many of the cantors and choir directors that were sent were sent by the Russian Orthodox Church, and they were naturally trained in Russian music. But there were many factors that led to many of the parishes dropping the use of Carpathian and Galician melodies, including families who did not pass on traditions to their children, the formation of choirs, and intermarriage to the heterodox.

As a pastor of a parish which went through all of that, and the son of an infamous Orthodox musician, I frequently encounter older parishioners who bemoan the very tiring phrase "we're losing our traditions" to which I usually reply, "where are your children?" and "did you pass the traditions on to them?" and "when did the tradition change here in church?" The answer to all of them is usually "I don't know."

So, the bottom line is, if they wanted to keep their traditions, the could have. The only thing that stopped them was their desire to do so. There was absolutely no edict to remove Carpathian traditions from the churches.

In McKees Rocks, at least 25% of our parish are converts. On Penteocst, we will receive a family of five (now former) Roman Catholics. They are of Italian heritage. This too, has an effect on culture in the parish, and contributes to why things change.

Priest Thomas

Father Thomas:

An analysis of "what happened" would require a lot of research covering many parishes, and would need to reach back into the formative years.

I know that parishioners of St. John the Baptist Russian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church in Johnstown, received a priest who actively promoted the learning and use of Great Russian at the expense of Rusyn dialect, Great Russian liturgical practice including music. Such trends may have been welcomed by many, who were advocates of pan-slavic Russian messianism, and might have been endured by others who were more interested in Americanization, and might have been seen as unacceptable to others (in the Bishop Dzubay camp).

Whatever the mechanism, the fact is that the proportion of OCA faithful that are decendents of Carpatho-Rusyns is reckoned as ~60%. What of the Carpatho-Rusyn musical tradition will you find at OCA web-site. What will you find at the seminaries? What support is there for people who who like to advance this tradition? Or is it disparaged as vestigal uniatism?

Of course, I do not speak for the seminaries, and I will admittedly tell you that the Carpatho Russian tradition is not well represented. However, again, St. Vladimir's and St. Tikhon's history of teachers and professors is anything but Carpatho Russian. The first music professor at SVS was Boris Ledkovsky. The first dean was from the Russian emmegres in France, Fr. Schmemann. These are not people who are going to promote Carpatho-Russian traditions.

However, your second question I would answer in the positive. Certainly if someone took the initiative and wanted to study the tradition, they would not be discouraged. To advance it, however, would require a sort of feigned Rusynization. Regardless of the current ethnic makeup of the OCA, as I stated previously, many of those traditions had been lost, for whatever reason. The history of the Metropolia is tied up with the Russian Orthodox Church. The OCA received their autocephaly from Moscow, not Uzhorod.

Your third question, however, it the most sensitive. I personally think that it is not the idea of this tradition being somehow tied in with Uniatism that makes it less than desirable for many OCA parishes today. What I do think, and this is from both a musical POV and from my own family and pastoral experience is that "the way" in which Prostopinije is done in many BC parishes makes it less-than-desirable as something which would be actively embraced by the current OCA churches. When they hear what sometimes sounds, well, unsophisticated (for lack of a better term, and I mean absolutely no disrespect here whatsoever, only a musical and pastoral observation) and compare it to their current choirs, then there's ultimately no reason for them to "change." However, I will also admittedly tell you that when I heard the recordings made by choirs under J. Michael Thompson (and I listen to them frequently) then that style becomes much more attractive. In other words, his vision for Prostopinije in English is right on target. It would "play in Peoria."

Certainly, in Johnstown at the OCA church, where Fr. George Johnson is the Rector, they are doing it. I don't know how much, but of course, one cannot summarily just change overnight. Other parishes in the coal belt in PA also have rediscovered Prostopinije.

Priest Thomas

Dear Father Thomas:

Thanks for your post. There are some real encouraging words here.

And just to clarify: in refering to St. John the Baptist's parish I was looking some 70 years ago, not discussing the present parish or priest.

Dear Lemko Rusyn,

First of all, I wanted to sincerely thank you for sharing your immense knowledge and insight on these religious, historical and cultural topics!

Could you suggest some books I could start chewing on to study the Lemko heritage and also the Lemko Rusyn liturgical traditions?

Thank you for enriching us all!

Alex

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas!

You've mentioned the Russian and Carpatho-Rusyn heritage in the OCA parishes.

I'm just wondering if you know of any parish where the Galician, Bukovinian or other heritage is dominant?

(I'm a "Galician-Bukovinian Ukie Uniate!")

Alex

Alex: CHRIST IS RISEN!

I'm not Father Thomas (obviously!), but when I was in Ottawa with my family, one of the OCA churches we visited was the "Bukovinian Greek Orthodox Church of the Holy Trinity." Since my late mother (of blessed memory!) sometimes referred to herself as "Bukovinian" and at most other times as a "Galicijanka," this was a church that I could not fail to visit! I even noted that this church has a very large icon of "Our Lady of Czestochowa!"

OrthodoxEast

Just a minor correction to the preceding post: The correct name of that OCA church in Ottawa is the "Bukovinian Greek Orthodox CATHEDRAL of the Holy Trinity."

If I remember correctly, this is the cathedral where His Grace, Bishop SERAPHIM, was enthroned as Bishop of Ottawa and Canada because of its size, rather than Ottawa's much smaller OCA "Annunciation to the Theotokos/St. Nicholas Cathedral," which is considered the official "cathedra" of the OCA's Canadian Archdiocese.

Orthodox East

No problem Alex, I'm glad you approve. I try, but I guess you'll really just have to wait for my book.

For "heritage" there's not a great selection. Online, I would say:

http://www.ce-review.org/99/24/laun24.html
http://www.era.anthropology.ac.uk/Teach-yourself/chap25-1.html
http://www.era.anthropology.ac.uk/Teach-yourself/chap25-2.html
http://www.lemko.org/books/best/index.html
http://www.lemko.org/books/best/index2.html
http://www.lemko.org/lih/zieba.html

And this book, if you can find it in a library or in a used bookstore, is great for the ethno-national political & religious situation in the early immigration to the USA:
Quest for the Rusyn Soul [amazon.com]

Liturgical traditions? I don't know of any studies of that at all, unfortunately.

Other than that, I guess you'll just have to wait for my book to come out.

Dear Lemko,

Well, if your posts are anyting to go by, your book is well worth any wait involved!

Thank you for the list of resources!

Alex

Dear OrthodoxEast,

Yes, a small world!

And we Bukovinians have to stick together, you know . . .

The Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada's St John's Cathedral in Winnipeg is, of course, named for the patron of Bukovina, St John Suchavsky, the merchant-martyr of the Council of Lyons whose Relics were brought to his monastery by Alexander the Good of Moldavia.

My great aunt was the Bukovinian writer, Olha Kobylansky, who often made the pilgrimage to the monastery of St John Suchavsky and wrote about it.

Apparently, as the feast falls on June 15th (OC), the heat is so intense and the number of people in church so great that someone always faints and falls to the floor during the services . . .

Alex