www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Baptism East v. West

Hello all!
I have a few questions regarding baptism in the Eastern Churches.
In the West, at least, any baptised person can baptize another. In case of emergency of course, but the important point is that they can.
Is this also true in the East?
If not, then how would the Eastern Catholic Churches and Orthodox Churches view a baptism performed by a lay person? Would they consider it null?

If it is possible, then, if it happened in the East the person baptized in such a case would not be communed and chrismed, for obvious reasons. In case the person/baby survived the situation he or she was in, would these sacraments be administered seperately as soon as possible?

God bless,
Filipe

Dear Filipe,

Any baptized person in the East can and should administer Baptism in emergencies - and that baptism is valid, of course.

The Greeks also allow "aero-baptism" or lifting a child in danger of dying into the air three times while pronouncing the words - I don't know much about this rite.

My cousin was adopted and she did have a baptismal certificate.

The other two Mysteries of Initiation were administered to her at the same time and by my grandfather, Fr. John ( + memory eternal!).

Alex

OC, I know you said you don't know much about the rite, but do you have anywhere where I could find some reading on the "aero-baptism" of which you speak? I have never heard of it before, and I must say I am skeptical, though not in a condescending or malicious way - I have an open mind, I've just never heard of something like that before. Thanks a ton, and God Bless!

Yours In Christ,

Jeff

Hello,
The Holy Trinity Greek Orthodox Church's website includes the following explanation about aero-baptism:
"If no Orthodox is available, the doctor or nurse, preferably Christian, can do the aero-baptism." (http://www.goholytrinity.org/sacramental/sacramental4.php)

Preferably Christian????!!!!!!
So what, if there are no christians around, somebody else can baptize the baby?
Now this is something I have NEVER heard of!
Any comments?

Dear Filipe,

Yes, in your RC Church, non-Christians may baptize if there is no Christian present and it is the will of the person to be baptized AND if the non-Christian doing the baptizing will baptize according to the form and spirit etc.

That goes on in your RC Church!

Pax Tecum!

Alex

Well, we learn things everyday!
That was a surprise, thanks OC!
Filipe

Found this online in a chat. Not much else as the conversion veered off into a discourse on corruption and corruptible, original sin, purgatory, etc. I did a Google search on Aerobaptism, Arial Baptism, and Aerob�ptisma, but didn't come up with anything else not already mentioned.

As an afterthought, I googled "Air Baptism" and came up with this:
And the only other thing I found was some new age guy saying each era of earth had a different element for baptism--air, then earth, then fire, then water--and he wants to usher us all in to the fifth era of humanity (Jesus is passe afterall and *so* 2,000 years ago) and baptize everyone with ether.

The question of whether a non-Christian can possibly baptize validly is, oddly enough, a question upon which the two present codes of canon law differ. The Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches require that the person doing the Baptism must be a Christian. The (Latin) Code of Canon Law allows that in an extreme emergency even a non-Christian may do this.

It happens more often than one might think - there are large Jewish hospitals in places in North American, and they routinely teach their staff how to baptize the baby of a Catholic mother in an emergency situation. I should know; my own sisters were baptized in just that manner.

The point here is that the non-Christian is simply acting as an agent for the party who wants the Baptism but is physically incapable of performing it (the mother, almost invariably); the agent has the simple intention of doing whatever it is that the Christians do in this circumstance. That's a minimal intention, but it is sufficient ("to do what the Church does").

Incognitus

So let me just see if this scenario would be possible:
Two men on a desert island. Both unbaptized, and in danger of dying at any moment. One of them wishes to be baptized before he dies, the other either also does, or doesn't particularly care. You can never baptize yourself, but could they, although non-christians, baptize eachother?
I know it's an unlikely situation but just for the sake of argument...

Isn't there also a "baptism by desire" theory (at least in the west) which applies to those who have a desire to be baptized but die before they are able to?

As has been asked on innumerable occasions, why are some theologians so amazingly fond of desert islands?

Incognitus

Because rainforest islands would present the problem of monkeys!

This is true but can be tricky as the proper form and intent and it might be hard to find a non-christian to have those requirements going for them, but it is possible no doubt. But we do know for example that Mormon Baptisn is not considered valid even though the form appears to be correct the intent is not the same trinitarian understanding christians use in their understanding when they baptize. So unless its a life or death situation get a christian to baptize you. The catholic church officially only uses priest or ordained deacons for baptism - the laity only baptize in in extreme circumstances and are the exception and not the rule. But in such circumstances one should be encouraged to do so.

This is true but can be tricky as the proper form and intent and it might be hard to find a non-christian to have those requirements going for them, but it is possible no doubt. But we do know for example that Mormon Baptisn is not considered valid even though the form appears to be correct the intent is not the same trinitarian understanding christians use in their understanding when they baptize. So unless its a life or death situation get a christian to baptize you. The catholic church prefers to use priest or ordained deacons for baptism - the laity only baptize in in extreme circumstances and are the exception and not the rule. But in such circumstances one should be encouraged to do so.