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Diak Offline OP
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A bit of different tone relative to the EP:

Quote
Protocol No. 1343
Dispatch No. 173


His Holiness,
Pope Benedict XVI,
Vatican City.


Your Holiness,

Warmly greeting You in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ I ask that You please accept my heartfelt prayers for health, longevity and strength from on High, in Your important and lofty Ministry. After due consideration, I have decided to write to Your Holiness in regard to a matter, recently carried in the Media, which has raised some concern in quarters of our Church. Specifically, it concerns the dropping of the traditional title of "Patriarch of the West" from Your Holiness' official titles as they are listed in the new Annuario Pontificio. Of course this could be due to--and we hope that such is the case--an editorial oversight or a printing error, and nothing more. Should, however, this not be the case, then please allow me to share with Your Holiness, the unease of many who feel that by dropping the title of "Patriarch of the West" our theologians, who are once again about to engage in mutual dialogue, will be deprived of a common basis upon which they could build the reunification of our Churches, a reunification that we all desire. For us Orthodox, the Pope of Elder Rome has always been the Patriarch of the West, the successor of the Apostles Peter and Paul who founded the Church of Rome, the first in honour, primus inter pares, and he who presides in Charity, and it is only logical that upon this title, within the framework of the ancient pentarchy (agreed upon at the Council of Constantinople of 879 and signed by the Legates of Pope John VIII) of the first millenium that we can build the reunification of the One Undivided Church.

Contrary to assertions by some Western scholars carried in the Press, who ascribe the title to the Pontificate of Pope Pius IX, the title of Patriarch of the West is fundamentally important for the ecclesiology of the Orthodox Church. Moreover, allow me to observe that this beautiful title is not only ancient and historic but also important even in terms of the Catholic Church alone, for during the execution of his duties, it is as Patriarch of the West that the Bishop of Rome promulgates laws, appoints bishops, etc. for the Latin Church.

Further, the argument that the title hinders the establishment of several patriarchates in the West and therefore should be suppressed, is groundless. Surely, after all these centuries no one can, in all seriousness, reduce the ecclesial identities of all the particular Churches in the West to that of the Roman Church. Such a reductive notion would, among other things, deny the importance of the identities of the great Primatial Sees of the West, some of which in the past had, or even today still retain their own liturgical uses, e.g. Lyons, Braga, and Toledo, not to mention the Ambrosian usage of Milan and the Sarum usage of Salisbury. All these Sees, while retaining their importance still come under Rome, the ancient Patriarchate of the West.

Your Holiness,

Without wishing to appear to interfere, it is with the profoundest benevolent respect and in the spirit of fraternal love and mutual concern for the promotion of Christian Unity that I share this deep concern of ours with You.

Trusting that Your Holiness will give the matter Your most careful attention, I am pleased, once again, to assure You of my heartfelt sentiments of sincere esteem and fraternal love in Christ.


Athens, 17 March 2006


+ C H R I S T O D O U L O S
ARCHBISHOP OF ATHENS AND ALL GREECE

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Diak,

Very interesting. Would you be kind enough to supply the source for the correspondence.

In Christ,

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As one who is still scratching his head as to why the pope would wish to drop this title I'm glad to see the archbishop raise this issue. I wish also to know the source of the letter or a link to the original.

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A most beautiful letter. Let's hope that this riddle will be answered....

Especially since just a decade ago, no one would have ever expected such correspondence, and such an emphasis on unifying the Churches, from the Church of Greece.

May our Lord grant unity soon!

Prayerfully,
Alice

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If the title "Patriarch of the West" is not restored, then, at least, use "Patriarch of Rome". In addition to the appointment of bishops in the West, the Pope's liturgical oversight of the Latin Church is also a Patriarchal role. Dropping that title appears, to me, to be a blunder.

Dn. Robert

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Has anyone heard what the response of that letter is?

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine
Concerned about the Dropping of the Title

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Excellent letter by His Grace the Archbishop. I hope Rome swiftly responds by reinstating the Patriarchal title.


"We love, because he first loved us"--1 John 4:19
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Quote
Originally posted by Diak:
For us Orthodox, the Pope of Elder Rome has always been the Patriarch of the West, the successor of the Apostles Peter and Paul who founded the Church of Rome, the first in honour, primus inter pares, and he who presides in Charity, and it is only logical that upon this title, within the framework of the ancient pentarchy [...] of the first millenium that we can build the reunification of the One Undivided Church.
I agree with Alice. I never would have expected to read something like this letter, and especially the above paragraph, coming from the Church of Greece!

Dave

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I believe I read that the talks being held between the Orthodox and Catholics are so that the Catholics can further explain their dogmas. Well I think they're going to have to explain now why they dropped the title of Patriarch of the West by Pope Benedict XVI. confused

I think the problem is that the RCC 'assumes' that what they say is being taken with the right intention, but it never is...except maybe by Arch. Christodoulos, who has the intelligence to realize the horrific situation of the Church in the world today. :rolleyes:

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The Church in Greece is way different from the way it was before John Paul II visited. It was the only Church that would not accept even the lifting of the excommunications between the then Patriarch Athenagoras and Pope John XXIII, (or so I think). It was always the most fundamentalist and anti-Papist of all the Orthodox Churches.

When the charismatic ARch. Christodoulos was voted in, he was quite young and started to take the Church in a different direction. At the time Pope JOhn Paul II visited, some of the older bishops were undoubtably still around, but today the situation must have changed. Also the Church in Greece does not have the power it had before, and they see the world situation as well. frown

When Pope John Paul II apologized for the fourth crusade, it was a big thing, and Arch. Christodoulos was elated. He said it to the MP, and the MP responded, well that's not what our problem is. confused

Well it doesn't matter, what does matter is that a majority of the people in Greece want unity, and Greek students of theology are now studying in the Vatican, and visa versa. Also, Arch. Christodoulos worked together with the RCC bishops in trying to get Christianity mentioned as a basis of European civilization in the EU constitution. Of course that caused a rumpus with the EP, among other things, for he was then pushing for every sort of compromise so Turkey could enter the EU, and Turkey was adamantly against Christianity being mentioned in the constitution. Well the Patriarch truly believed that the TUrks would open the theology school, and as usual, the Turks did an about face. So that was that... as usual! :rolleyes:

I believe ARch. Christodoulos will be going to the Vatican soon, and if I see things correctly, the Holy Spirit is moving towards unity in Greece. Hopefully it will move other Orthodox as well, because I really don't know if Greece can do anything on it's own.

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All heretics must return to the true orthodox faith and then the unity will be possible. Otherwise, no. We all have faults for division between East and West, because we are humans, but at least Orthodox Church preserved the TRUTH.
There is no true love without the true faith and vice versa. Everything else is a pure sentimentalism.

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Dear Krsto,

Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is TRUTH.

All love comes through the Holy Spirit in a desire to follow our Lord and His tenets. THAT is true faith as it was handed down to the ONE Church of the first millenium with all its liturgical diversities, and as it has continued in the sacraments, devotion, praxis and holiness of BOTH estranged sides of it.

All other sentiments are nothing other than pure egotism and triumphism. Furthermore, in the words of a very holy contemporary Bishop, a former Athonite monastic: "fundamentalism is spiritual immaturity".

Sincerely,
Alice

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Quote
Originally posted by Krsto:
All heretics must return to the true orthodox faith and then the unity will be possible. Otherwise, no. We all have faults for division between East and West, because we are humans, but at least Orthodox Church preserved the TRUTH.
There is no true love without the true faith and vice versa. Everything else is a pure sentimentalism.
"Thou art Peter (Kephas), and upon this Rock (Kephas) I will build my Church".

Fr. Deacon Robert
Byzantine Catholic Eparchy of Passaic

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Great!
If both are perseving the truth, then why should we wait any longer for reunion? biggrin

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