www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Scripture and Patristic Writings God is love. 1 John 4:15,16.

�Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.� (1 John 4:15,16 - Feast of the Passing of St. John the Apostle and Evangelist)

As you can see this is the scripture at the top of our forum page. It is from the Feast of the Passing of St. John the Apostle and Evangelist. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this is the scripture which was in the Byzantine Divine Liturgy for this week.

I am inviting anyone to begin reflections, comments, and discussion on this meaningful scripture.
Here are a few thoughts:

We notice how St. John the Apostle and Evangelist refers to God being Love. It seems to me that I once heard that as an old man St. John would keep telling those he encountered, "Little children, love one another", no matter how old they were.

But as I reflect on this I ask myself...what does this mean to me today in my life, at work, in my home, at Church, and in my neighborhood...and, of course, in the world? How do we live out these scriptures? It is surely easy for me to reflect...without changing anything, without understanding, without confession, and even easier to use WORDS of love when my actions and attitude may speak otherwise. How does this shoe fit?

In Christ and the Theotokos,

Porter (Mary Jo)

My first thought on this Scripture takes me to
Romans
Chapter 12:

1
I urge you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God, your spiritual worship.
2
Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect.

To live that life that God is calling us to lead we must allow him to transform our minds so that we are no longer conformed to the world. I think 1 John 3 is an excellent guide to know if we are truly abiding in the love of God. http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/1john/1john3.htm

Pani Rose

I think you meant 1 John 4...because that was the scripture topic. Thanks for sharing. I think using the scriptures to explain the scriptures is good.

Mary Jo..who appreciates all you do.

Ephesians 2:
8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
9
it is not from works, so no one may boast.
10
For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.

I realize this Scripture leads to the faith and not by works debate in some circles. But what I want to use is that last part of the sentence in 9, so no one may boast . Some Bibles say by the ' word of our testimony '. That is so important in understanding the the Scrpiture at hand �Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. Faith comes by hearing Romans 10:16-18 16 But not everyone has heeded the good news; for Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what was heard from us?" So it is so important that we profess our faith with our lips that we may hear with our ears and grow in the knowledge and understanding of God. Thereby, allowing our minds to be changed so that we may confess that Jesus is Lord.

When we look at 1 John 3, he is first saying the message you have heard - so it was spoken - then he says let us love not in word or speech but in deed and truth. So then we are transformed into Christ likeness because he has changed us because we heard the word and beleived. But it has to be active on our part, it must go from hearing and speaking to living Gods commandments because he is Love.
1 John 3
11
For this is the message you have heard from the beginning: we should love one another,
18
Children, let us love not in word or speech but in deed and truth.
19
(Now) this is how we shall know that we 7 belong to the truth and reassure our hearts before him
20
in whatever our hearts condemn, for God is greater than our hearts and knows everything.
21
Beloved, if (our) hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence in God
22
and receive from him whatever we ask, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.

Hope I havn't confused anyone. Pani Rose

Pani Rose, Thanks for clarifying. Yes, I was confused, but now I see what you meant.

In Christ,

Porter

Jo,

I was thinking last night, well morning , after posting that really this leads to the Great Commission. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God When we are confessing our love of God to other men, we realize and others understand this
So we know and believe the love God has for us. So that our lives, actions and words profess this both naturally and spiritually.

Don't you love it when someone comes up and says to you they know there is something different about, something they don't see in others and they can't figure out what it is.
God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.� I really think it is the Holy Spirit showing the love of God and his peace. God's word says it 'confounds.' Isn't that cool? That in the process of someones figuring things out they are confronted with Jesus. Like St Francis said pearch the Gospel and when necessary use words. That is what this verse is saying to me.

Pani Rose

Matthew 28:
18
11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19
Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
20
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

IMHO, "God is love" has to be brought home first. What I mean by that is in dealing with many souls the embracing idea of loving ourselves. Before I am jumped on, many people have not come to respect themselves as a creation of God. One can not extend love if one does not know how to love. With that one must start with themselves. A lot of times, hatred is an extension of how people feel about themselves. They have never known the peace of love, and with that forgiveness. In confession we experience the displeasure of having to admit our shortcomings and sins. The point of reconciliation is that peace that love brings. We feel the joy of God's love. We then have the feeling of the newness of our creation. We experience that love for what we are at that point. We also care for ouselves in our daily routines out of love.

Love is trying to make ourselves better not only physically and emotionally, but spiritually. This we can do by prayer, in that we are communicating that need for self-improvement spiritually and asking for that love and mercy we need to learn. As we learn to love, we can extend love as God has shown us in our hearts to love. We also improve ourselves in love by the partaking of the Holy Mysteries. In the prayers of preparation, we ask that it may be a coal to burn away all that is impure. Hatred is definitely an impurity that attacks the soul. Many scriptures can be applied to love, and in a quick search I found many. They are just an abstract thought or words for those that have yet to experience love in the form of agape.

"God is love" is a powerful statement that we each must bring home first, before trying to apply it elsewhere. Experience is the true teacher, and if we do not experience it first with ourselves and with God, we can not share it with the world. Let us start working at our experience of love, with ourselves and with God, then we can bring it to the world as a powerful force that will overcome the blindness it shows to one another.

Again this is my humble opinion.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Father Anthony,

I totally agree with you. Thank you for showing us this point of view that everyone needs to know. Coming from experiences at my parish, we need to bring love home and experience it in our own lives before showing others how to do so in their lives. I'm so glad you brought this up.

Yours in Christ and the Theotokos,
Gretchen

Fr. Anthony,

I guess that takes us to todays Scripture
�Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.� (1 John 4:15,16 - Feast of the Passing of St. John the Apostle and Evangelist)

The love of God is the greatest of all commandments. To love our neighbors as ourselves is also very important. In todays society seems one of two things happens to so many of us, we love ourselve all too much or we dislike ourselves . The first is the sin of pride, which really turns folks off and the second is the a sin because we call God's creation junk.

Satan loves to do one of two things:
He says you are not worthy for God to love.
He says you are too good to worry about God loving you. Sadly we listen to all the silly words and all too often accept them.

WE must stand up rebuke the thoughts when they come to our hearing and say "I am a child of God created in his image and likness." Then we must accept that God loves us so much that he sent his Son and believe it. WE must begin professing what God says about us and believe them.

Then it is so much easier to love others as God intended for us to do.

Pani Rose

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Friends,

Going along with this statement above...I am

taking another look at 1 John 4:16 the second verse in our scripture study..

"So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.�

St. John is stating that we KNOW and BELIEVE the love God has for us. Simply put we believe God loves us. But sometimes this is hard to believe for those who grew up in circumstances where human love was not present as much as it should have been or maybe it was given conditionally. God does love us, however, no matter what, so the real emphasis in this passage is on our believing of that.

God also loves us whether we deserve it or not. God's nature is to love for God is Love. We are encouraged by the Apostle to believe that and abide in that Love...for in doing so we abide in God.

As an expression of His love God also disciplines(corrects and trains) us as we would our own children as an expression of our love. If we don't believe He really loves us then discipline can be difficult for us to take. And we could resent or prick against his chastisements and not consider them part of His Love. We might even think he doesn't care or has abandoned us.

It can be difficult to understand the things that happen to us...the doors that shut, the doors that do not open, the disappointments, the failures, the missed opportunities, the challenges and conflicts, the losses and many other things without realizing that a loving God has permitted certain things in our lives to help us learn and grow. Our Loving Father really does know what is best for us and what will help us in the long run.

Once we accept this Love...we can love back and even love others with greater freedom and frequency. Knowing we are loved we can begin to love to love..

I agree with Father Anthony that we have to love ourselves. And we do this by knowing that if God loves us then we too are commanded to love ourselves. So there is a balance in loving ourselves and loving others which can be summarized in the command... "Love thy neighbor as thyself ." However, if we don't love ourself how can we then love our neighbor?

A growing sense of joy and security comes as we progress in believing that we are loved by God. As it sinks in we are freed to enjoy the numerous expressions of God's love which are showered upon us daily.

In Christ,

Porter (Mary Jo)

Thanks to all who have posted comments and reflections to 1 John 4: 15, 16. The whole chapter is worth a careful read and exploration as is all of St. John the Apostle's writings.

Here is a website including more information about St. John the Apostle also called St. John the Evangelist and the "Beloved Apostle."

St. John the Apostle [catholic.org]

When I think of St. John I usually picture him standing by the Theotokos at the foot of the cross.

When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!" Then he said to the disciple, "Behold,your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home. [John 19:26-27]

Blessings,

Mary Jo

Dear All,
I wonder if loving our neighbor as ourselves also has the sense of protecting our neighbor with the same devotion that we protect ourselves from harm. This is hard for me to put into words. What I mean is, we may feel unloveable, yet we still love our life, we want to protect ourselves from harm, from sorrow and pain, and preserve our life in any way we can, unless we are deeply disordered and believe so strongly that we deserve death and that nothing, not even the love of God, can rescue us. What if this Scripture is saying something like that about our love for our neighbor-something like "put your neighbor first, his health and safety and need for love, just as you protect your own life and happiness." Does this make any sense?
Michele

doulos,

It's a matter of what one thinks love is and what love means. Jesus tells us: This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:12-13 which tradition tells us was also written by St. John the Apostle.

But in those particular verses mentioned as the topic of this thread I think St. John was emphasizes the nature of God's love and urging others to believe that God is love. His stess is on belief rather than on feelings.

I brought in "Love Thy Neigbor as Thyself" which was said by Jesus in order to agree with Fr. Anthony's post. Sometimes we can be so busy trying to love everyone else we don't love ourselves and sometimes we can't believe God really loves us.

Surely many of us continue to require healing on God's journey. I used to be a counselor and I often found that women who had childhoods in which there was lack of love and possibly even abuse from a father or father figure especially had a tough time believing God, the Father, loves them. St. John is telling us that God is Love and this certainly implies that

Our Heavenly Father is a loving Father. Our Heavenly Father has loved us all along whether we feel that or not.
Loving ourselves as Jesus tells us to do surely doesn't mean we always put ourselves first. In families we mothers/grandmothers often must put the needs of others before our own. Sacrifice is often necessary. And I do think this means as you say, "protecting others with the same devotion." We just tend to all of them better if we tend to our own needs as well.

God Bless,

Your sister in Christ,

Mary Jo

I hesitated to post here, because I have no love. Who can talk about God's love? In no case this soul.
I post only because two days ago I have reread an apophtegma of Saint Arsenius. He said he does not want mercy after his passing. Only his own love for God and all the people will be his mercy.
This soul thinks same manner.

(from http://www.cin.org/spirit/lithumil.html)

May God have mercy upon us. Amin.

Thank you, sister Mary Josephine, for this thread. I am in a kind of peace now, after 4 hours I go to Greece. I will be praying at those monasteries from Meteora for all of you.

In Christ, brotherly, Marian +

Dear Marian,

I came across the prayer you posted about five years ago, and I am still in awe of the profound humility it teaches...

Amen.

In Christ,
Alice