www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization ByzanTEEN Where are the Byzan-Teens?

Dear friends,

The dead silence in this Teen forum is symptomatic of the problem in our church as a whole. At my school, Franciscan University of Steubenville, I have encountered SEVEN students who were raised Byzantine, and are now practicing Roman Catholics. Several of these students are theology majors.

I asked a couple of them why they no longer attend any Byzantine parish, as there are two close by. They told me that they experienced Jesus for the first time at the charismatic Roman liturgies on our campus.
They are now excited about Catholicism, and are preparing to dedicate their lives to serving the Roman Church. This is particularly tragic, as these are the very people that WE need.

What can we do to help our kids develop an appreciation for our faith, without them having to leave the Byzantine church? How can we keep our kids happily Byzantine?

Yours in Christ,

Anthony

[This message has been edited by Dragani (edited 12-14-1999).]

Glory to Jesus Christ ! Anthony, I agree that the Byzantine Teen Exodus is the most serious problem facing our chuches. I say this as a convert from Roman Catholicism. May I suggest the following: 1) The eparchies ought to make a complete study of the non-attending teens and their families. What has caused you to lose interest in your church ? Would you raise your children as Byzantines ? Why or why not ? 2) There must be some enthusiastic Byzan-Teens somewhere. There are teens who have a vocation, sing in the choir, serve as acolytes, etc. There must be some teens who are also converts to Byzantine Catholicism from Roman Catholicism. Study their motivations. 3) Compare the results of the two and make appropriate recommendations to our bishops and their pastors. You may be in unique situation at a dynamic Catholic university. Any parish Byzantine or Roman Catholic may suffer by comparison. Also the new college friends of the Byzan-Teens are probably all Roman Catholics. This may be another factor in their "conversion." I hope that this provides you with some comfort.

Glory to Jesus Christ ! We need to teach our children that Christ values the Traditions of Constantinople, the See of St. Andrew the Apostle just as much as He esteems the Roman disciples of St. Peter. What are our own Byzantine contributions to the Mystical Body of Christ ? They need to learn of monasticism and the fathers of the desert. Who were the saints who refuted the early heresies ? The first eight Ecumenical Councils were all held in the East ! Who were the saints and monks who led our fathers back to communion with the successors of St. Peter ? We must teach them true Orthodox worship: the role of ikons; bows and prostrations instead of kneeling; the majesty of our Divine Liturgies; our Lenten Liturgy of the Presanctified; our unique personal prayers and hymns and their saintly authors ought to be known and treasured,etc. Did these youths, you mentioned, pray regularly in their ikon corners ? Did they celebrate their namedays ? Did they wear the triple cross ? Did they keep the fasts ? Were they active in their parishes ? I suspect, Anthony, that as we rediscover these treasures for ourselves our youth will learn to do likewise.

Hi all,

As a future teen-convert to Byzantine Catholocism (after flirting with Evangelicalism and thinking for a year after I decided to enter the Catholic fold that I was going to be a Roman just like the apologists who helped to understand why I had to enter the Catholic Church), lemme just say something that has been my driving force behind my discovery and love of Byzantine Catholicism:

Becoming an Eastern Catholic to me means living out the Faith of the Fathers in a way that is unique to the Christian East. I really don't see becoming "Eastern" as an end of itself but rather "how" I'm going to live my Catholicism rather than a separate "what". Let me also state that in my discovery of Byzantine Catholicism, my love and appreciation of holy Orthodoxy has also grown (duh).

When I finally enter into full communion with the See of Peter, I'm going to become a part of the Universal Church (by this I mean Catholicism and Orthodoxy), part of a worldwide tapestry, partaking of the "faith which was once and for all delivered unto the saints". Something is pulling me toward the East. I think it's the whole Eastern approach: the Divine Liturgy, the emphasis on healing and renewal when it comes to justification, kenosis, theosis, all those other things that make a Christian get excited about the Faith.

Why don't I just become Orthodox? Well, like I said, it's about that tapestry of East and West. I still (and always will) admire Roman Catholicism, and I don't wanna separate myself from that tradition completely and reject it as "heresy". But the RCC just won't be home. It'll be the beautiful mansion across the street, but it won't be my home.

With that said, there are some developments in Roman Catholicism that I'm at odds with (not dogma of course, but rather mindset, and confusing, in the minds of some of the laity at least, tradition with Tradition). Is holy Orthodoxy perfect? No, it's holy, but not perfect (for example the overemphasis on ethnicity). During the period after the schism (including now), the more these two branches grew, the more they grew apart. I think that Roman approach (with all the categories and syllogisms) of explaining, clarifying, and defending the Faith and the Orthodox approach (focusing on why we love the Faith so much as to defend in the first place), both have their home in the Universal Church. If Ambrose and Augustine was able to somehow stand in solidarity with John Damascene and John Chrysostom before the schism, I don't see why I can't during it. Being "Orthodox in communion with Rome" will be trying for sure, but I think it's well worth it. :-)

And that folks, is why I'm gonna be a BC.

Yours in the Holy Trinity,

Darrenn

[This message has been edited by Darrenn Jackson (edited 12-16-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Darrenn Jackson (edited 12-16-1999).]

Welcome Darrenn and others,
The number one reason that I find for Byzatine Catholic teens leaving the Church is the Latinized training that their parents had which have given them the attitude that they should just go anywhere that "Feels good", or is most convienient, or faster, easier, demands less commitment or is more entertaining.

Although I am a long time supporter of Franciscan University of Steubenville, I must question their real faithfulness to the Holy Father, if they do not do all in their power to direct these errarant Byzantine Catholic youngsters to their churches. But sadly that will never happen, they have such lapsed Byzatine Catholics on their staff. (I could provide names, but it would serve no useful purpose.) The teachings of the Second Vatican Council call for all Eastern Catholics to return to their proper traditions. If FUS does not follow this clear and simple teaching, in its pastoral practices where else could it be straying from the whole truth. The real problem is that FUS appears to presume a "superiority of the Roman Church." And sadly Anthony many of our own Byzantine Catholics believe the same way. At least they act like it.

I have been active in Charismatic Renewal for 25 years. It was what helped me discover Byzantine Christianity. And it was the Holy Spirit importance in Byzantine Christianity that helped lead me to the priesthood, unworthly that I am.

Anthony, please give my name and address to any of these lapsed Byzantine Catholic students, so I can invite them to Byzantine Catholic Liturgies where the power of the Holy Spirit is celebrated. You and they are always welcome at:
St. Andrew the Apostle Byzantine Church
5768 Andrews Rd.
Mentor-on-the-Lake, OH 44060

I will be bringing my high school students to the First High School Conference. We will celebrate our own Liturgy at the Monestary in Steubenville. I will also be attending the Priests Conference this June. I am also hoping to attend the St. Simeon Renewal Conference in February, if I can find a substitute.

In the Power of the Holy Spirit,
Fr. Bryan Eyman

>>>The number one reason that I find for Byzatine Catholic teens leaving the Church is the Latinized training that their parents had
which have given them the attitude that they should just go anywhere that "Feels good", or is most convienient, or faster, easier,
demands less commitment or is more entertaining.<<<

Fr. Bryan is absolutely right. When compared with the Roman Church, we are just horribly inconvenient for modern, suburban American youth. One, or perhaps two Liturgies, on Sunday morning? What about soccer? Hour-long liturgies? The day is shot. During the summer months especially, we lose a lot of attendance to what I call "Seventh Day Adventist" Catholicism--hitting the 5PM Saturday Mass at St. Pragmatica's down the block. A quick, 45-minute service, and you don't have to postpone supper.

One interesting element in the "Liturgical Instruction" is that the Sacred Congregation says Eastern Catholics can fulfill their obligations by attending the Divine Praises on Saturday. In other words, the Vigil Service is equivalent to the Divine Liturgy from a purely juridical perspective (which, let's face it, is what counts to most people). They did this because they wanted (a) to get more people to come to the Eastern liturgies without creating more Divine Liturgies; and (b) to increase attendance at Vespers. I think that it would be helpful for all parishes to celebrate the vigil, making it clear that this is a way for the people to meet their obligations. After all, the priest has to say the officce anyway, so he might was well have company. The main impediment, as I see it, is the entrenched attitude of "No Eucharist? No way!". But if we can overcome the approach that thinks of liturgy as a factory for Eucharistic distribution, I think this approach has some potential.

Regarding teenage participation, from my parish's experience the most important thing is to involve the kids as early as possible in all aspects of Church life. Thus, we have teenagers who act as cantors, ushers, and readers on a regular basis (usually one liturgy per month); our teens provided the cantors at the Eparchial Youth Pilgrimmage this year, and it was a great succcess. We also schedule lots of social events for them, to create a group bond, and we have them engage in various charitable and outreach activities. At the bottom, though, all of these things require strong parental support, both to supervise the activities, and to make the kids join in. Those parents who do not sacrifice their heritage in order to get to soccer games or to sleep in on Sunday have kids who will grow rich in their Byzantine faith. And those whose parents won't make this commitment, will drift off.

Hi Stuart!

Parental commitment is so important. But realize that many parents today (mine included, which makes my own journey to the Catholic Church all the more interesting) is "We don't wanna force religion on our kids. We wouldn't want to encroach on their freedom our force our own ideals on them now do we?"

Well, that's modern, Western thinking for you. Haven't they ever heard of the Parable of the Sower? God still sows whether or not children will be receive the seed of His word or not. Someday, they will (due to the grace of God). More and more Byzantine (and Roman) Catholics need to understand their Faith as something that isn't limiting, but freeing. The Faith is a treasure, not a burden. It doesn't shock me that the culture of death that thinks this way is the same that allows Roe v. Wade to be the law of the land.

Anyhoo, kenosis is a hard sell to any generation. But Christ is meek and humble of heart, and His burden is light. People will go out of their way for something that they value and hold dear (nowadays its soccer, work, or what have you).

Sacrifice isn't hard for our society, it's sacrificing selflessly for God and His will. In the middle between the Church and this society are the teens, which is why this is perhaps one of the most relevant threads on this forum because we, the teens will be the ones who will pursue Catholic/Orthodox reconcillation in the next millennium along with all the other challenges the Church will face.

Yours in the Holy Trinity,

Darrenn ;-)

Dear Friends:

I am also wondering about Byzantine Young people. I notice at my new parish that the Young people don't have much to do. Many sing in the Choir and that is great but when they leave for college, what is going to happen to them? I have seen too many young Catholic people go off to "alive" Evangelical churches and other RC parishes that "speak" their language.

I have taught Young people and I know what they are feeling, what they worry about, how they want answers and for people to be "straight up" with them. Parents, you must live your faith! As a child, I saw my family live their Black Baptist faith. We prayed together on our knees and we had to learn Bible verses from memory and be able to recite them before each other. What a great training I received. My late mother was not ashamed for us to see her kneeling by her bed praying for each one of us. It made us know that she loved us. She continued this up until the day that she died( 2 February 1995 ).

Live the wonderful Eastern Catholic prayer and faith traditions and tell your children why you do so. I am new to Byzantine worship and I have a lot to learn myself but I do care about young people. I used to be one myself and they have to know why being, living, praying, thinking like a Byzantine Christian is worth the time and effort that it takes. I hope one day to be able to help with that ByzanTeen class at my new parish. Parents and Teachers, wake up. Children live what they learn! Give them the truth in all its glory. They'll never leave when you do that and show them that it does matter to you!

Ann
annst.nicholas@byzantines.net

Fr. Bryan,

Will you be bringing your teens to the ByzanTEEN retreat this year? The Parma HORIZONS showed your youth singing with Roman Catholics at Steubi-ville. How do your youth witness the Byzantine tradition singing like Pentecostals? - unless you all re-introduced the 'orans' position of prayer at liturgy.

Elias

Dear Elias,
Christ is among us!
My High School Students WILL be at the Byzanteen YOUTH Rally in Uniontown, PA this summer. You may be interested in knowing that this was THEIR decision! We again had won spaces for the Steubenville Conference, but they saw the need to join with their Byzantine Teen age Brothers and Sisters. Praise God! He is working among my youngsters.

I do not believe I need to explain why I have been taking my Teens to the most vibrant and faithful High School Conference of which I am aware. You may be interested in knowing that we maintained our own Liturgical Life, celebrating Divine Services at the Byzantine Monestary in Steubenville!

Additionally, I have been involved in Catholic Charismatic Renewal for over 25 years. If you have read my other posts, you know that I am as Orthodox as they come. But my activity in Charismatic Renewal have kept me in Communion with the Pope. And our current Holy Father, has done nothing but strengthen, encourage, correct when needed, and pastor Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

By the way, the "orans" form of prayer is perfectly normal in the Byzantine Church. "Let us lift up our hearts." And my parishioners are certainly welcome to pray in that way at anytime, as their Pastor does!
Yours in the Holy Spirit,
Fr. Bryan Eyman

Hey I've got an idea, maybe the reason why teens don't come to church is because the church is trying to be all cool and hip. But in the process tradition has been watered down. Teens want substance, something real with structure. When we see words like byzanTEEN we think "oh how very lame".

Here is some advice,
be real, return to tradition (smells, yells and bells), DO NOT TRY AND ACT COOL, new age roman catholic stuff will send your teens running to the local buddhist temple.

ig

[ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: ilya goes to church ]

[ 01-26-2002: Message edited by: ilya goes to church ]

I think you all are missing something. I would not blame it on "Latinization" unless by that you mean post Vatican II allowances.

I'm Roman Catholic and 30 years old. What I see is a general historical want of American Catholics to rather be more American and be accepted by Protestants and live like Protestants than to be approved of by Rome in their Catholicity. The media is a huge factor also, people are told that oh Catholics morn and oh Protestants celebrate. While their are heroic and faithful Catholics in America, by-in-large most American Catholics lack the balls to tell those younger then them that they go to Mass (or Divine Liturgy) to worship God, not to be entertained. Rome is no help - wouldn't want to loss some of those big pocket books in America nor it's political might - so let's start putting up the Christ with His hands stuck up in the air on the Cross all around the world, I mean since the Protestants are fond of telling us Christ is ressurected so that's why they turn the Cross around.

And the Charismatic Movement is just another Protestant inovation - I'm sorry that I don't much care for. I know many good Catholics go this... and even get something out of it... fine it's not evil. But with all do respect I find it to be overall a sham. I can not reconcile myself to the belief that a just God would bestow the gift of *babble* on so many people so often, just because they sing and wave hand and really really want Him and His gifts. Yet with all the sincere desire for God and His gifts He bestows from the tears and beating heart of some little girl in tied up in the back of a car trunk... God answers her not with no gift of bi-location or levitation or whatever. In the end I think people for the most part in the Charismatic thing just get themselves worked up - and why not... we've had young very intelligent people kill themselves waiting to be taken up by a spaceship?

+JMJ+

I would like to add my two cents in here.

I am a Roman Catholic and am very active in the local Roman Parish (unfortunatley there are no Eastern parishes in the area). I have found that it is the job of the priest to make the teens more active.

My parish priest now has me serving Mass and being a lay reader. I don't like the lay reader part as I prefer to follow the Ancient Roman Rite which does not have lay readers. I also have to cringe when I serve Mass with FEMALE altar servers.

I have also found that it helps to have many activities for the youth. Unfortunatly, our Church tends to alienate the youth by tending towards the middle agers who have the bigger wallets (unfortunately, it wseems like the collection plate reigns supreme anymore) and the elderly who have the time to attend daily Mass etc.

Father, you mentioned that there was a Byzantine Monastery in Steubinville? Did you mean the Fransiscan Monestery or a seperate Monestary?

Father, I would like to humbly ask your blessing.

Joe Zollars

Hi everybody,

Wow, my last post on this thread was like 2 years ago (FYI, I entered the Byzantine Catholic Church (Ruthenian Metropolia) on Dec. 26, 2000).

Ilya: You're just plain cool...I just don't know how else to say it.


Maximus: Ditto everything you said. Everytime this issue of the ByzanTEENS and the Charismatic movement comes up, my mind goes back to the story of St. Vladimir, his buds came back from the RC Mass they experienced and noted its lack of joy; but said that when they experienced the Divine Liturgy at the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople, they couldn't tell if they were in heaven, or on earth. As our BC re-Orthodoxify, (in a restricted liturgical sense in this context is: restoring the other liturgical services, burning those blasted pews, brining back the orans position, encouraging ALL of our congregation to sing), we'll discover that at the heart of our Byzantine Christianity is what the what Charismatics are so desperately looking for: heaven on earth. The smooth, flexible "flow" of our worship (before the advent of those blasted pews). Somehow, I think the RCC's fascination with the Charismatic movement ties in with the struggle of modern-day Roman Catholicism to re-light that inner mystical fire which for so long had been a part of RC experience (even if nominally or superficially so).

Here's some advice for my dear charismatic RC friends (of which I have many):

1. Run, don't walk--not to your Pep Rally Masses, but to your bedroom, better yet, your closet. Like St. John of the Cross, (and many other RC saints)try finding God in hours alone spent in silence and material darkness. For all your clamoring about how "free" your charismatic worship makes you feel, you never will be truly free if don't understand the difference between a true move of the Holy Spirit and raw emotionalism.

2. True, your charismatic "revival" has brought with it bigger parishes and more upbeat music and a corrective to much of the problems of the Pre-V II RCC; but in seeking to "correct" many old problems, you ran headlong into a heap of new ones. So much of the often shallow drivel that poses for contemporary Christian music, the plethora of WWJD, FROG, and other assorted slogan/jewelry madness, and the problems the RCC has (on the practical level) of effectively confronting modernity (note: I firmly believe that it is the RCC, not the BCC or the Eastern Orthodox, who have the biggest problems challenging modernity and modernism) was made possible of the classic AmChurch ecclesiastical model: The Church of the Parish Councils. Even if most of your liturgical "planners" or "rejuvenators" (read: CTA crowd) are right about the horrors of reverent pre- and post- Vatican II Roman "conservatism", you've only moved from the tyrants you haven't met to the tyrants you have. Congratulations!;&gt

And I'll think that I'll stop there for tonight.

Yours in the Theotokos,

Darrenn Jackson

[ 01-27-2002: Message edited by: Darrenn Jackson ]

The blessing of peace be with you!

thanks darrenn for giving encouragement and advice to Charismatics especially for somewhat defending the renewal.

I'll share some of how we do our prayer meetings and other activities: We have this thing with being emotionally high so we somehow bring them down to earth again, so to say. and our main focus is the Holy Liturgy, our activities and talks is centered in Christ in the Holy Liturgy, service and Holy Scriptures. when we celebrate the "Mass" it is more or the traditional side because we sing most parts which is lost or not sung in Masses here. and the music ministry was praised by the 5pm sunday mass parishioners (the old ladies) because of their selected songs.

oh, by the way, i'm eumir bautista of the Philippines. hope that with this few sharings doesn't offend people, i'm acting in the Spirit of unity and sharings of the different traditions, cultures and practices of our One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

In Christ,
eumir