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Posted: Monday, May 13, 2002


An Arab Diplomat on the Need to Replace Jihad With Social Development


In an article written by "an Arab diplomat who chose to reveal his real name," - Abu Ahmad Mustafa called upon the Arab world to replace Jihad with social development. The article, titled "When Will the Arabs Learn the Lesson Even Once," appeared recently in the Saudi-owned London daily Al-Sharq Al-Awsat. The following are excerpts from the article:

"Now, after the fog has begun to lift above the skies of the Palestinian Authority, and after the second Intifada has ended, at such a terrible price, the Arabs must try � at least once � to grasp the lesson that they have been taught yet again..."

"First, we must admit that the ones who pushed the children into the second Intifada had no defined political goal that they sought to achieve and that would benefit the Palestinian people... It became clear, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that the ones who planned it wanted to thwart any initiative that President Arafat sought to promote. They wanted to make him simultaneously their prisoner and Israel's prisoner..."

"Many questions have raced around my mind since the demonstrations began to throng the streets of the Arab capitals, reminiscent of the giant demonstrations to defend the honor of the nation of Comrade Saddam."

"Several Arab countries demonstrated spontaneously. I heard and learned that committees consisting of both government and opposition party members were established to organize the demonstrations. In the first ranks of demonstrators stood some top officials of Arab countries, who sought to neutralize [the nationalist elements] that claimed the governments are lagging behind the street. At this point, I ask: Why don't they demonstrate to protest against the deficient (or nonexistent) basic services in their countries? [These] countries have no health, education, or services, and buckle under the poverty line... but all are preoccupied with the Palestine issue, and no voice rises above the voice of battle there! Do you think these officials would participate in demonstrations of this kind if the citizens decided to hold them?"

"Furthermore, why do they push the citizens to contribute from their own money? Here too stand top officials, contributing as much as they wish... Again I ask: Why don't they instruct their citizens with regard to the importance of contributing to improve education, health, and social services in their countries?!"

"What would happen if every Arab country had, since 1948, turned its attention to building itself from within, without making Palestine its main issue?

Wouldn't this be better than wasting money on armies and equipping them so that we can listen to their military marches every so often? What would happen if every Arab country focused on educating its citizens, and on improving their physical and emotional health and cultural level?! Wouldn't this have made the battle with Israel into a cultural battle instead of us sinking into religious or military battles?!"
"Moreover, I am amazed at the clerics who raise a hue and cry about Jihad against Israel, engage in conflict, and compete with each other in issuing religious rulings on suicide [attacks] � but do not encourage the citizens to wage spiritual Jihad. Wouldn't this be more useful to the [Arab] nation, which since the turn of the century has been subject to Nakba [catastrophe] by its own military, and now marches towards a second Nakba by its scientists � I refer, of course, to the scientists of religion, and not the scientists of physics, natural science, health, or engineering..."(1)

Endnote:
(1) Al-Sharq Al-Awsat (London), May 8, 2002.

So how do you understand the oppression of Eastern Christians in Muslim countries?

Have the majority of Muslims left the teachings of their religion?

Can Freedom of Conscience and choice, concerning freedom of religion be compatible with a Muslim State?

Salaam,
ALity

Those of us who are Muslims of the Balkans--or their descendents--must desire with all of our heart and will that Christians will not suffer at the hands of Muslims what Balkan Muslims suffered at the hands of Balkan Christians: five million Balkan Muslims were forced off the land they--and their Christian or Bogomil ancestors--had inhabited for hundreds of years; another five and half million Balkan Muslims died at the hands of Balkan Christians, some murdered, while others died from starvation and disease, between 1821 and 1922.

Of course, for many of us, it is the memory of the Balkan Muslim persecution and the slaughter of our ancestors that inspires our love for Islam and strengthens our personal ties to our mystical past and the Slav Muslim lands that our ancestors gave their lives to and for.

This understanding of what it means to be part of a people who have suffered death and exile for the sake of conscience and freedom of worship--including the Christian Armenians and Greeks-- creates within us empathy for others--Christians, Jews, and devotees of other faiths--who suffer for the sake of conscience and the desire to worship according to one's conscience. Certainly, we desire that the freedoms taken from us will not be taken from them, and if they have been, that they be restored.

That is why we--Muslims--must throw all of our support behind those Islamic countries that do support freedom of religion and conscience and are struggling to protect the rights of minority religions within their lands, Arab or non-Arab.

We can thank God that the majority of Muslim nations--as sources in the Vatican confirm and will testify to--do not persecute their non-Muslim citizens and residents. But for those who do, there is much work to be done.

And we cannot forget those non-Muslim nations that also persecute their Muslim citizens.

There must be "freedom and justice for all."

In the Name of Allah al-Ghafoor (the forgiving.)

Abdur

www.atmg.org/DeathExile.html [atmg.org]

[ 05-15-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]

Let Isreal have its state. Isreal offered the Palestians a fair deal and Arafat turned it down. Why. Because the Islamic world can't live with the thought that there could be a Jewish state in the Middle East. Islam respects Christains and Jews as long as we are second class citizens under their rule. If Islam would just let the rest of us live and rule our lands in peace. Muslim attacks against Isreal, India, East Timor, Cyprus and the United States (Sept. 11) must stop. The vast majority of Isrealis want and deserve peace. As for the Christains in the area, they would be much better off in an Isreali state where they would have full democracy and could practice their religion in peace then living in fear under a Hamas Palestian state.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jporthodox:
If Islam would just let the rest of us live and rule our lands in peace.

Which Islam?

Your statement is too general, and analogous to the belief of some Muslims that all Christians are terrorist "crusaders," when they make such sweeping--and emotionally packed and inaccurate-- statements such as, "If the Christians (meaning Crusaders) would just let the rest of us live in peace... ."

I don't know of one Greek Christian member of my extended family who would appreciate being lableled a "crusader."

Certainly, Orthodox Christians would be appalled by someone mislabeling them as "Crusaders," and who could blame them?! Of course, Muslims do not want to mislabeled, in turn.

Just as there is an incredible diversity of belief and practice of Christianity among Christians, the same applies for Muslims in their practice of Islam.

Don't fall into the irrational trap of making sweeping--and purely hypothetical and inaccurate-- statements about Muslims, Islam,etc. There are about 120 Muslim or Muslim majority countries and many diverse Islamic cultures, from fundamentalist fanatics to arch-liberals.

You would be surprised to know, I am sure, that only 13-14% of Muslims are Arabs. The "rest of us," do not always agree with the minority of Muslims who are Arabs and their interpretations of what it means to be a Muslim and how to practice Islam. Even among the Arabs, there is a great difference of opinion of what it means to be a Muslim.

Certainly, one can deduce from these facts that it is both unfair and even "un-Christian," to label and paint all Muslims as fanatics and Wahhabi-ist fundamentalists. Nothing could be farther from the truth, as Vatican Islamic authorities would certainly confirm, including His Holiness, the Pope of Rome.

" As for the Christains in the area, they would be much better off in an Isreali state where they would have full democracy and could practice their religion in peace then (sic) living in fear under a Hamas Palestian (sic)state."

I would say there are more non-Arab and/or minority Muslims living in Israel who are more in favor of remaining under Israeli rule than Arab--and other--Christians.

Do not forget that many Palestinian Christians are secularized and consider themselves Arabs first and Christians second. Some of the strongest Arab nationalists are not Muslims, but Christians, even outside of Israel, such as the former Iraqi Secretary of State, Tariq Aziz, the right-hand man of the Butcher from Baghdad, Uncle Saddam!

Muslims are also the victims of persecution and violence in India, as well as Burma, Cambodia, and elsewhere.

"Freedom and Justice for all."

Muslims and Christians--as a group-- will never love one another, but we will not necessarily hate one another , either. And there are plenty of contemporary "mixed" families of Christians and Muslims--especially in the Balkans--who do in fact love one another with a strong and passionate love. However, we must--as you imply--live together with a modicum of peace.

Trying to understand one another--based on facts and not emotional exaggerations--is the key to accomplishing that godly goal.

Salaam,

Abdur

[ 05-15-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]

You raise a number of good points. However, as for my grouping Muslim countries, you have to admit there are some unfortunate similarities. If you want to build in Mosque in Rome, you can. If you want to build a church in Mecca, you die. Number of Muslim countries with functioning democracies, maybe Turkey or Bosina, maybe. There is no doubt that historically Christians have had their problems but, speaking as a Greek, I really don't have a lot of fond family memories of the Turks and their rule, nor do my Armenian friends.

If you read the Vatican material, you will see that most Muslim nations--obviously not all--allow freedom of religion for their non-Muslim citizens.

Even a Saudi prince is advocating freedom of religion for Christians in Saudi Arabia.

All of Saudi Arabia's neighboring Islamic states allow freedom of religion to non-Islamic residents. ( I am not sure about Yemen, however.) But a huge Christian church was recently built in either Qatar, or maybe it was in the United Emirates.

Certainly, progress is being made.

You wouldn't "die" if you built a church in Mecca. I don't think you would ever get that far! On the other hand, would the Vatican allow Muslims to build a mosque within Vatican City? That would be a better analogy, since Mekka, like the Vatican, is considered Holy Ground.

I certainly do empathize with your ill feelings for Turks and other Balkan Muslims. I have the same nghtmares about Balkan Christians.


Irenee passi, adelphos!

Salaam,

Abdur

[ 05-15-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]

I agree that you could not build a mosque on church property. However, on privately held property you could build a mosque in Rome. You are right, Christians could not even get close to building a Church in Mecca.

Regarding religious tolerance in the Balkans, Greece has a growing, perhaps even thriving Muslim minority. In Turkey, there are barely any Christians left and Halki, our seminar, is closed. Also, you notice that Muslims from all over the world are going to Christian majority nations to live and not the other way around.

The Serbs were severely punished for what happened in Bosina. The Turks continue to deny the Areminian holocaust were millions died.

I know I will get heat for this but Israel's military goes after terrorists, not civilians. Civilians die in war but Israel was forced into this war and had no other choice. The Palestians had a great deal from Israel and I am sure the Christian population would have taken it. However, the suicide bomers pushed Israel into this situation and no there are no Christian suicide bomers.

That is a deceitful comment. It can easily be phrased as Muslims are going to countries that have committed genocide in their history (America, Germany) and not vise versa. Or you can say that Muslims are going to countries that formerly colonized the rest of the planet and not countries that preserved their freedom. You could have also said they are moving to majority white nations; instead you chose to say to "majority Christian' nations. What all these countries have in common is that they are industrialized and offer the greatest opportunity for jobs in this planet divided into the haves and the have-nots. Muslims come here for the same reason that many people come here from third world countries. That is not because they are fleeing from religious persecution but because they are looking for jobs and school.

The vicious nature of the Israeli regime is clear. This is the suggestion from an Israeli officer according to the Israeli daily Ma'ariv:

"If our job is to seize a densely packed refugee camp or take over the Nablus casbah, and if this job is given to an (Israeli) officer to carry out without casualties on both sides, he must before all else analyze and bring together the lessons of past battles, even - shocking though this might appear – to analyze how the German army operated in the Warsaw ghetto."

The right of the Palestinians to struggle for their liberation from fascist Zionism is not something that is open for sterile and senseless sound bite CNN/MSNBC style "discussion'.

Self-Determination means that YOU do not decide the fate and future of Palestinians, they decide it! Rather they decide to have an independent state or decide their right to return to land and houses that were stolen from them in 1948 by thieves, thugs and terrorists (Jewish ones) is their right and their decision. This is not the right of any Russian or European (mostly), Ethiopian, Indian, Yemeni, or American Jews who have just flown into (migrated to) Israel and immediately start talking about what needs to be done about Palestinians on the Palestinians ancestral land.

I will not argue with people who openly support Israeli racism and colonization of the Palestinian people any more than I would argue with people who openly supported Apartheid South Africa (Israel's friend and comrade in arms). I find it even more appalling when the arguments are advanced by disgraced thugs, war criminals, and mass murderers like Arial Sharon.

The Christian Monasteries have existed in the Holy Land for centuries without any "protection' from the Zionist state. In the 19th Century our Ethiopian Orthodox monks have suffered more discrimination, harassment and difficulty from other Orthodox Christians then they ever suffered from Palestinian Muslims.

Everyone with a half of a brain and a little historical knowledge knows that all the reactionary Arab regimes were the creation of Western (starting with British) Imperialism. Everyone knows that if it were not for the protection of the American military that Saudi Arabia's Royal Family would not last another day in power. To complain about a regime that is a creation of the west is hypocritical.

You mention Christians living in the Vatican while Christians can not live in Mecca. The racist Jewish settlements in the "occupied territory' (in quotes because all Israel is occupied) restrict membership to Jews. They do not let Palestinians, Christian, Muslim, or otherwise live there. In a more honest era we would have called that segregation, I will call it that now.

Anyway, Orthodox Christians are clear in their stance:

Pope Shenouda III of the Egyptian Coptic (Orhthodox) Church urged for us to support the Palestinian Intifada. His Holiness called on the members of our sister Coptic Church to contribute aid and assistance to the Palestinian people. Statements put out with the combined authority of all thirteen of the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Churches, along with Catholics and Protestants in Jerusalem, have signed statements that acknowledge the Palestinians rights, even duty, to resist occupation.

God Bless the Palestinian people and may their struggle for liberation finds its day of victory.

God Bless you

Aklie Semaet

[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Aklie Semaet ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jporthodox:
[qb]"I agree that you could not build a mosque on church property. However, on privately held property you could build a mosque in Rome. You are right, Christians could not even get close to building a Church in Mecca."


My point is: You can't even build a new mosque in Mekka, since all of Mekka--from city to Kabbah-- is considered sacred ground--like the Holy Temple of pre-christian Jerusalem-- and no one can "build there," even Muslims, without special permission.

That is why I interjected the hypothetical case of Vatican City: I don't believe Catholics would give permission for Muslims to build a mosque in the middle of St.Peter's Cathedral. Mekka is our St.Peter's Cathedral, if you will.

However, if Christians can be justifiably denied--or Hindus,Farsees,etc.,--churches or temples within the Sacred Compound of Mekka, why should they be prohibited from building churches or temples within Medina or any other city within Saudi Arabia? They are allowed to in other Islamic countries, in fact, the majority.


"Regarding religious tolerance in the Balkans, Greece has a growing, perhaps even thriving Muslim minority. In Turkey, there are barely any Christians left and Halki, our seminar, is closed."

Yes, you are correct about Turkey and their treatment of Greek Christians. However, Christians are not alone in being the victims of persecution by the Turkish government: Muslims are also viciously persecuted by the Turkish secularist government.

" Also, you notice that Muslims from all over the world are going to Christian majority nations to live and not the other way around."

Actually, thousands of Asian Christians--and other Christians--have immigrated to Malaysia--a Muslim nation--and many more seem to be coming.
Of course, thousands of Russian Orthodox believers live in the Central Asiatic Muslim republics.

As far as immigration of Muslims to Europe, how many of the countries of Western Europe can be considered Christian majority nations? Is it possible to even consider Western Europe--with its strong materialist and secular philosophical base--even "Christian?"

Many Christians no longer consider Europe--or even North America--to comprise part of-- a now defunct?-- Christendom.


"The Serbs were severely punished for what happened in Bosina."

I like Servs, as individuals. In fact, my brother and I grew up with some Serv boys and Servs did fight on the side of Muslims against the Milosovic gang in the recent war. But Bosnian Muslims--according to all European sources and the UN--paid a much higher price than the Servs: 250,000 butchered men, women, and children.

Turks do need to come to terms with the horrors of the Armenian slaughter. But, Armenians must take responsibility for the slaughter of Turkish civilians by Armenians.

You can't have one without the other and be considered a righteous person and believer in God--Allah al-Ghafoor--in my opinion and according to my religious beliefs.

On the other hand, people who refuse to compromise the truth for any reason or prejudice--dare not to be politically or religiously correct--are almost universally despised. Most human beings just cannot abide "the truth....the whole truth...and nothing but the truth."

Conditions for Greek Muslims have improved in Greece, but there is still some persecution. However, conditions are much better than they were just a few years ago. The Greeks are to be praised for their openness to Greek Muslims, some of whom are the descendents of Greek Christians.

To clarify a few other points:

It is also true that the majority of Balkan Christians are completely ignorant of the Balkan Muslim genocide that occured between 1821-1922, even though those Western European philhellenes who strongly supported the liberation of Greeks from the Ottoman yoke, severely criticized those Greek leaders who began the Greek revolution with the slaughter of 25,000 Muslim men, women, and children in Moldova, to the horror of the Moldavian Christians, who wanted no part in such barbarity.

It seems to be a universal manifestation of human evil, that the oppressed become the oppressors, when the opportunity presents itself.


"I know I will get heat for this but Israel's military goes after terrorists, not civilians. Civilians die in war but Israel was forced into this war and had no other choice. The Palestians had a great deal from Israel and I am sure the Christian population would have taken it. However, the suicide bomers pushed Israel into this situation and no there are no Christian suicide bomers."

Muslims--Arabs, Circassians, and others --serve in the Israeli armed forces. That tells you something about the corruption of the PLO.

However, it is also true that there are Palestinian Christian terrorists, like George Habash, for example.

Salaam,

Abdur

[ 05-15-2002: Message edited by: traveler ]

�
Dear Iv Man:

Do you think all of this hate between Arabs and Americans will cease or go on and on?

I think Americans are confusing all Arabs with Islamic extremists because our media has shown a great amount of bias against Palestinians in the Israeli-Palestinian situation. I think the Arabs get upset because of our ignorance plus the media always associate Islam with Palestinians, when they, like Lebanese, Egyptians and other moderate Arab nations, have mixtures of Christians, Muslims and Jews in their nations, as does Israel.

What do you think, O' Wise One, will it ever end?

Molly O. Malone

Pt. Orange
___________________
Dear Molly:

Sounds like you might have seen and fought some religious bias yourself with a name like that.

Anyhow, I know a friend who went to London on business. England is full of Arabs and Asians and he said he found it difficult to get along with the Arabs there because the Brits' treatment of them caused Arabs to reciprocate and be caustic and untrusting.

He related an interesting occurrence on the way home that sums it all up, I'd say.

Sam (my friend) sat beside two Arabs on the flight from Gatwick to Harstfield-Atlanta. One Arab sat in the window seat and the other sat in the middle seat. Sam took the open aisle seat.�

After take off, Sam kicked his shoes off, wiggled his toes and was settling in when the Arab in the window seat said, "I think I'll get up and get a Coke." "No problem," said Sam, "I'll get it for you."�

While he was gone, one of the Arabs picked up Sam's shoe and spat in it. When Sam returned with the Cokes, the other Arab said, "That looks good, I think I'll have one too." Again, Sam obligingly went to fetch it and while he was gone, the other Arab picked up the other shoe and spat in it. When Sam returned to his seat, they all sat back and enjoyed the movie and the rest of the flight. All seemed amused�

As the plane was landing, Sam slipped his feet into his shoes and knew immediately what had happened.�

"Why does it have to be this way?" he asked. "How long must this go on? This fighting between our nations? This hatred? This animosity? This spitting in shoes, and peeing in Cokes?"�


Regards,

IV Man
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